HKs MP7 has never been available in any commercial form. Relatively speaking, the 300 Blackout is better suited to shorter barreled guns; in fact, it was designed for exactly this task. In the confusion the shot was released off line or as one might say, out of time. I'm curious what kind of accuracy you are going to see out of that thing. The art of shooting groups from support is about being patient. With regard to accuracy, I wasnt just worried that a 5.5-inch barrel, which sports just 3.25-inches of rifling, would shoot minute of bucket, I was worried there wouldnt be enough spin to stabilize heavy bullets out to 100 yards. Filter SIG MCX . Our days at the range were somewhat windy, so waiting for a lull before releasing a shot was standard procedure. Outdoors, only the Winchester FMJ produced enough flash to be visible to me when shooting. Certainly, you get all the nimbleness and convenience of the configuration in 5.56. Fitting right into this slot is the Saint Victor 300 Blackout Pistol. Takedown revealed nickel-boron coating of hammer and trigger components, plus a tension screw to fix any gap between the upper and lower ends of the rifle. Keep Reading. The recoil was manageable with the hottest loads, and it was a pleasure to shoot with subsonics. April 23, 2020 By Sean Utley While there are many good suppressors available, in my experience there are a few notable brands and models which, from a durability/longevity standpoint, I would consider first when looking to purchase a suppressor. Perfectly tailored to man the ramparts of your home. Our Team Said: When it comes to paying more for a rifle, or any firearm for that matter, its easy to check off a list of features to justify a higher price tag. Thanks to the precise trigger, the shooter always felt he was in complete control. This is a 100-yard rifle. This means you have the option to read your magazine on most popular phones and tablets. they bring all the guns and you buy the ammo and have a blast . This eliminates the crack that coincides with the bullet leaving the muzzle caused by the projectile breaking the sound barrier. You get what you pay for, in this case a pistol loaded with the companys high-performance custom parts and extras you wont find on economy models. This may be true for some configurations, in certain environments, with particular loads. Another design goal was optimized sound suppressor use, so sub- and supersonic 300 Blackout loads were developed. The barrel is 16 inches and features a 1:8 twist. Given the test barrel used to produce this data was likely 20 inches or more in length, we think this was still somewhat out of spec. Before we get there, lets look at the concept of the personal-defense weapon (PDW). If I did buy another SIG rifle it would be the 716 to replace my Victor .308 (most know my issues with this gun). Our Team Said: Priced at $900 MSRP, the Saint should be extremely competitive for first-time buyers. During our action tests, we landed four A-zone hits on targets left and center. Higher-level shooters might prefer a hard break without overture, but its certainly not a distraction that will inhibit the experienced shooter. In late 2019, Springfield released the SAINT Pistol, featuring upgraded components and a retail price of just $849. Love my M400 Tread and if I was in the market for another AR Rifle, i'd absolutely consider it. The handguard is crap, but I replaced mine with one I found here on the EE. But in spite of all that, I find myself wanting one, a lot. This five-position brace was specifically designed for PDW-sized guns and only hangs 4 inches off the back of the receiver when fully collapsed. These two hunting loads made perfect little holes and passed through their blocks without expanding. The Black Hills 77-grain OTM rounds were next best, showing an average five-shot group measuring about 0.9 inch. The MCX can be switched from 5.56mm NATO to 300 Blackout and back again, and users can easily install new barrels, handguards and stocks as needed. We also liked the bead-blast finish on the barrel. The handguard does not have a rail on the top except for a very short section near the muzzle. Thats pretty much what youd expect from a V-MAX. It has a pretty decent barrel and is reliable, so I can recommend it as a solid choice. It loves 150 grain bullets, does well down to 120 grain below that that deer,hog killer doesnt group to my expectations. Featured one of the most consistent triggers weve tried and costly ambidextrous controls. Now more are jumping into the AR-15 market. That said, like every cartridge, it gains velocity out of longer barrels to a certain point. Sure, but thats not its sweet spot. Definitely looking at the Sig, but having a hard time forking over that much money. Since then, the company expanded the line of guns to include a range of variations that fall into three main lines. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. I love my Evo .. You must log in or register to reply here. Furthermore, the gun is outfitted with Wilsons proprietary handguard, a fairly light affair that is M-Lok compatible and features a 4-inch accessory rail, as well as quick-detachment sling mounts. Use of our website(s) implies understanding of our content disclaimer and privacy policy. General guidelines dictate a 1:7 twist rate (there are also the odd 1:5 examples) for subsonic 300 Blackout and a 1:8 or slower for supersonic. . If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, its perfect. Furthermore, Sig has a much higher percentage of parts and weapons produced in house, which allows them to control quality much more closely, where as Springfield assembles and builds only a fraction of their product line, AFAIK. I just started a new thread under Sig Rifles to cover Vrtus Patrol. As a result of this solicitation, SIG Sauer designed the MCX Rattler, and Maxim Defense came out with the PDX. In 2017, the U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM) issued a Request For Information, basically asking someone to design a .300 Blackout PDW top end for them that a soldier could slap onto a standard M4 lower to create a concealable AR-based PDW. Sig isnt the most popular on the forum, but Ive never had an issue with my M400. I usually rent them from my lgs and/or borrow my friend's. Now with the updated SAINT Edge PDW goes further, by going smaller. An example that comes to mind is how the handguard that comes stock has mlok that only goes halfway down, and people complain about it getting real hot, and conveniently they sell a upgraded version with mlok that covers the whole thing, and effectively solves . For a company many people thought was years late to the AR party, Springfield Armory has done an amazing job in seizing a substantial percentage of the AR-15 marketplace, and theyre not slowing down. Springfield Armory SAINT 5.56 NATO [MSRP $919] - Bravo Company Buttstock/Pistol Grip/Handguard/Trigger Guard, Nickel Boron GI Trigger, 16 Melonite Barrel w/ 1:8 Twist. I got the email also Bio. Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited. I own the Springfield Saint Victor. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Compared to most everything else on the market, the 10.5-inch barrel (1:7 twist) pistol is an absolute Cadillac. On a full-size rifle or carbine, I think the relieved magazine well of the Saint Edge looks a bit small, but on this build it looks just right. Over ten trigger pulls we never got the same reading twice. Eric Poole and Tom Beckstrand test the Aimpoint Acro P-2 against one of red dot sights' biggest myths: distance. What surprised me as much as the complete reliability was how soft-shooting the PDW was. Im looking eventually for a Tread 400 (maybe this one?). If you havent heard yet, be advised that millions of gun owners may soon be classified as felons if a new Bureau of Alcohol, AR-15 Carbines for Less Than $1300: The Winner is a Saint, SIG Sauer P365XL Spectre P365V001 9mm Luger, Springfield Armory Hellcat Pro HCP9379BOSP 9mm Luger, SHOT 2023: Savage Arms Introduces 1911 Government Model Pistols, 5 Best 9mm Pistols for Concealed Carry in 2023, New Shooters Guide: The Best Gun For Home Defense Isnt a. The Saint is one of the most user-friendly versions of this user-friendly platform. As far as stabilization, it features the fairly standard SB Tactical SBA3 brace. The CMMG Mk4T was the tale of two rifles. Target-left was placed 5 yards downrange, target-right 7 yards downrange, and the center target 10 yards downrange. Suppressed though, that Saint Pistol is terrific. Life has a melody. Springfield Armory's $899 Saint, the manufacturer's first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. The stripped-down SBR version of the Rattler weighs in at 5.7 pounds. The pistol is supplied with flip-up front and rear sights that sit relatively tall when folded and dont take up much rail space. and our The SIG MCX Rattler is an incredibly handy rifle that's easy to conceal. Logical on the surface, given faster twist rates are generally required for heavier bullets, but there is debate on the matter. Every MCX also comes with an ambidextrous safety selector and magazine release for righties and lefties. New! Looks pretty sweet . But its really a 100-yard rifle with supersonic ammunition. Still love Springfield but im sour on that line. After all, the eminently suppressible, hard-hitting .30-caliber was tailored for such gunscarbine and smaller that is. Wilson Combat SFX9 5-Inch Solid Frame 9mm Pistol: First Look. As a PDW cartridge, the .223/5.56, unlike the 5.7x28mm and 4.6x30mm, is grossly inefficient. He called it a stutter. For more information on the SIG MCX Rattler, please visit SigSauer.com. It opened up at about 3 inches and penetrated 12.7 inches, retaining 192.8 grains of its original bullet weight. The Sig Rattler is only available with a 5.5 inch barrel, in 300 Blackout or 5.56mm. That never occurred with the Dead Air Sandman-K, but the Rattler never missed a beat with either and ejected every case as fast as could I pull the trigger. The SCAR 15P is chambered for 5.56 NATO and, with its 7.5-inch barrel, is the most compact SCAR to date. These guns eventually faded awaypartially because of their ammunition and because it was easier to use a variant of the M4 Carbinebut the need did not. In addition, the fit and finish of the operational parts, most important the consistency of the trigger, makes this carbine worth the extra money. You are using an out of date browser. Also, unlike the HK MP7 and FN P90, you can actually buy a Springfield Armory PDW. I run the SIG SRD762TI on my Rattler. Choice of ammunition for AR-15s used to be limited by the 1:9-inch-twist barrel. You got the CZ shadow 2 orange is it 9mm or 40 cal. Sorry for long story .Your CZ Bren are pretty cool looking guns , I got the CZ Evo3 in OD green with SB 3 tactical folding brace on it . Rattler was built to be fired primarily unsuppressed, with the ability to be suppressed, if needed. What sets the SIG MCX Rattler apart? FN sells a 16-inch-barreled carbine version of the P90, the PS90, but it looks ugly and awkward and is far from compact. Springfield Armory Saint Victor. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Springfield Armory SAINT Victor AR-15s; WATCH: SIG Sauer M400 . Hay Talyn, The 1st pic is of the new Switchblade 5.56 Pistol , Which is a real pic from the LGS. The AR pistol is a platform of many uses. But thats what your 20-inch barreled baby is for, right? I suppose this is due, in part, to how much gas is escaping out the short barrel past the bullet instead of gathering force behind it as it would in a longer barrel. At first glance, the $1250 SIG Sauer RM400 Classic looked like a standard model with only a flat-top rail above the receiver to break up the profile. The combination of the mid-length gas system and the heavy buffer make a Saint very soft shooting. Its very handy. It was too short. Written and photographed by Roger Eckstine, using evaluations from Gun Tests team testers. (Tie) LWRC Smg-45 ($3k?fuck!) Garmin Tactix 7 Pro Ballistic Solar-Powered GPS Smartwatch: First Look, How to Choose the Best Scope Reticle for Your Application, Colt King Cobra Target 22LR Rimfire Revolver: New for 2022, Self-Defense Handgun and Ammo Options for People With Dexterity and Strength Issues, 5 Best Red-Dot Optics for SIG Sauer P365X & XL Pistols. If the Mk4T had either of the triggers found on the SIG Sauer or Springfield Armory carbines, it might have been the accuracy champ of this test. Instead of a GI-pattern charging handle, the PDW sports Springfields midsize charging handle, which is substantially larger than the GI model. Operating the trigger in a controlled press, the trigger seemed to find two stopping points before finally breaking a shot. If you need a discreet weapon for 100-yard engagements, it's perfect. MSRP: $949; ruger.com. The BCM Gunfighter grip provided a steeper angle than the others, including the Magpul grip found on the M400. Even knowing how short the barrel is, I was surprised at the low velocities nothing produced over 2,000 feet per second (fps), not even Black Hills hot 50-grain Optimized TSX load. With the provided 20-round Magpul PMAG in place, the PDW weighs 5 pounds, 10 ounces. The SCW assembly isnt just a short buffer tube; it includes a shortened, proprietary bolt carrier group (BCG), and the buffer and spring protrude into the upper receiver when the bolt is closed. Concerning these small-but-potent arms, they're pretty dang slick in 5.56 NATO, but sing when chambered 300 Blackout. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! The idea was to replace 9mm submachine guns for support troops and special operations units with something more powerful that wasnt a full-sized, Tactical Life Gun Magazine: Gun news, gun reviews and gun magazines for gun enthusiasts, military and law enforcement, You use of this website constitutes and manifests your acceptance of our, ENTER TO WIN > Free Gun Friday for your chance to WIN the SIG Sauer P320 AXG Legion and Black Hills HoneyBadger Ammo, Anderson Manufacturing Kiger-9c Pro: Upgrades and EDC Ready, Stow it and Go: The Volquartsen 22 LR VT2 Takedown Rifle. A light, compact AR pistol in the right caliber is easy to carry for long distances . The test shooter said he was on target inside the A-zone, but the trigger didnt respond. Granted you give up some ballistic performance, but gain a gat easy to transport and, yes, conceal (say in a backpack). The SIG MCX in a discrete platform featuring a thin, durable folding stock and a 5.5" barrel with PDW upper. They are going to err on the side of caution by telling you they are incompatible but in this situation they are right. This is the MCX Rattler. I wrote SilencerCo another letter, under a different email. I would use the 110-grain Barnes TAC-TX load and never feel undergunned. So, I spread the wealth equally. Between the friendly trigger, which our shooter was able to stage as we moved from target to target, and some adrenalin, we had added one full circuit, even if all 15 shots werent perfect. The base of the grip was hinged to expose a storage space that was water resistant, thanks to a rubber gasket. Purely on the rifle's features / traits wise, Update: im being told that both rifles are available for ~$1000 should I wait; i guess the extra $$$ is demand / price gouging for the saint. The Sig Sauer Rattler. The gas block is pinned in place. Detent at the safety was heavy and secure without any rough edges. It was very easy to move quickly, and the gun always felt light. Supporter+. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308. I was able to get 10 hits out of 10 on the top portion of an IPSC silhouette at 100 yards with the Lehigh Defense load and Barnes subsonicswell within the designs parameters. I was at a gun expo local set up by or LGS where all the repp's come and its a shoot day . In measuring trigger-pull weight, we arrived at an average of about 7.2 pounds. With the brace collapsed, it is just 18.75 inches long. Some of these extras include a top-end self-lubricating nickel-boron trigger, suppressor-ready heavy tungsten buffer, adjustable SB Tactical SBA3 brace and forward hand stop. One answer would be to take advantage of the latest technology in terms of manufacturing, helpful features and improved ammunition. So move along . Suppressed, the Rattler ran everything on the supersonic setting (less gas). Springfield incorporates some nice accessories from Reptilia Corp. like the CQG pistol grip, which has a more vertical angle than the standard AR grip. There was, however, a relief on each side of the handguard about 2.5 inches ahead of the receiver for attaching a quick detach (QD) button-style sling loop. Wed prefer a free-float sling attachment, but the Saint is handsome and well made at a good price. You have entered an incorrect email address! FIRST LOOK: Sig Sauer MCX Rattler, the Worlds Smallest Rifle. In our view, the advertising campaign that preceded the Saints introduction underscored that the AR-15 is not just for the military. However, moving to the Barnes, Hornady and Lehigh Defense rounds changed things. We tend to the 7.5-inch SBA3 model, given its the rare smallster in the caliber that doesnt demand a kings ransom. The Eberlestock bag worked well with the gun sporting a suppressor and fully loaded, and removing the can and ammunition would allow the Rattler to slide into a small laptop case. Save my name and email to use for future comments. What we came up with was three AR-15s with upgrades that distinguished them from more traditional models. The Judge has been promoted! As our tests continued and the trigger broke in, we sometimes experienced only one stopping point before break. check out the. Wow just read the article on TTAG. I assumed shooting this gun would be like holding a concussion grenade in my teeth, but I was pleasantly surprised thanks to the Hate Brake. The 300 rattler was designed to be suppressed. I bought a Tread on a whim. Both companies have reputations for occasional issues with their QC, but Sig certainly produces a higher tier product overall. AC63A5C8-2987-40EB-B654-CFB78764D21B_1530751250330.jpeg. Would I want to get shot with it at 200 yards? The selector switch is bilateral and works just fine. More money for ammo, Fsatureless affords full capacity magazines, @bamaengineer may i ask why you would choose the Sig over the Saint? I wrote SilencerCo to ask about the Hybrid compatibility. Spring loaded at rest, there was a platform on each side that released the sight instantaneously to its vertical position. I took the Saint victor home and that's all it wrote for me . Depending on where you stand in the stabilization debate, this could prove a dealbreaker. To test the SIG MCX Rattler SBR as it might be used on a deployment, I added a few accessories. The TaurusTX 22 Compact delivers class-leading reliability, capacity, and shootability in a 22 LR platform, and it's cut for a slide-mounted mini red dot. Both short-barreled rifle (SBR) and pistol variants of the MCX Rattler are available. Sig 716i or Springfield Victor Saint .308, https://www.surplusammo.com/categori-308-mags.html, MISC Training Course Announcements & AAR's, Former Vickers Shooting Method Regional Instructors, Pacific Northwest Training and Networking, All Other Longgun Parts, Accessories, & Magazines (EE), Handgun Parts, Accessories & Magazines (EE), If this is your first visit, be sure to
*Bullet weight measured in grains, velocity in fps by chronograph and accuracy in inches for best 5-shot groups at 50 yards. This video does make me feel better about Springfield. Two of the loads were subsonic; Sigs 220-grain OTMs clustered into 0.7 inches while Lehigh Defenses 194-grain Maximum Expansion (ME) rounds created a 1-inch group. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win. But there are a few key reasons why the .30-caliber is better suited for compact ARs. Dont be fooled, a 16-inch carbine in Blackout will outperform a 9-inch Blackout pistol. Runs great. I'm selling my XD and definitely going with the MCX. AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types. I can't get my hands on the DD5 which I really prefer. Im a lefty so the gas hits me right in the face. The fit between the top and bottom end of the CMMG Mk4T was admirably tight, yet the takedown pin was easy to operate. New Springfield Saint. Additionally, given the use of heavier bullets (200-grains plus and thereabouts), the loads have a smaller powder charge compared to their supersonic counterparts. The lower is mil-spec, so an upper change is no different than any other lower. Here are my personal Pros & Cons of the Saint Victor (FEATURELESS, CA Compliant version) Pros: - Comes with basic flip-up sights ready to go out of box - Full length M-Lok rail slots (TREAD seems to stop 8/10 of the way from the front) - Lighter Cons: - $1400+tax - 2 port MB rather than M400's 3 port (any difference in felt recoil?) Neither rifle is "top tier," so to speak. While many people often think of AR pistols as just short-barreled carbines, in this case, the pistol appellation is quite apt. Springfield Armorys $899 Saint, the manufacturers first AR-15, was treated to a Bravo Company BCM Gunfighter stock and Keymod handrail. SIG MCX Rattler For Sale SIG Rattler and SIG MCX Rattler 5.56/300Blk Pistols For Sale Online All new SIG MCX Rattler Pistols are now available in 5.56 and 300 Blackout calibers. Elwood Shelton is an online content developer for Gun Digest. The free-floated handguard offered Keymod machining on three sides, and the Picatinny top rail extended 11 inches from the receiver. Maybe i'll sell the .308 if they ship me a new replacement and get an M1A instead, but i'm not exactly dying to give that money right back to them after this fiasco. Each block of calibrated Clear Ballistics gel measured 4 by 4 by 17 inches. Will it perform at greater distances? As far as apples to apples, do your research and see for yourself that you will get slightly better product with a Springfield compared to a sig, better coatings on barrel, BCG (both melonite) and a Nickel boron coated trigger. From the beginning, we discovered an inordinate amount of creep in the trigger. Lets see if our money was well spent. At the Impact Zone Range, our rifles shared a $420 1x20mm SIG Sauer Romeo 4b Compact Scope with a tiny 2-minute-of-angle red dot. I put a ton of ammunition through this rifle, and everything workedtypical of the MCX series. Springfield provides a hand stop to keep your fingers from straying in front of the muzzle, but it is somewhat reduced in size. I'm a sucker for. models. Taylors & Company FS Tactical 1911: Now in 10mm! While chambered in 5.56 NATO, the Springfield Armory Saint Edge PDW has but a 5.5-inch barrel. Is the Rattler a precision instrument? Knock off mp5 in 9mm I had a mpx pistol 3yrs ago and while funseems about 100% pointless knowing todays ballistic capabilities of the 556 &300. blbennett1288 Rivet. The metal loop at the heel of buttplate was free swinging.
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