They claim that it occurred here in the USA siting scriptures and other things Joseph smith said. ), systematically undermining Church teachings on the law of chastity and the . You can have a PhD and still not have great knowledge. I teared up with Brent during that part. I love the podcasts. Thanks for this podcast! He has already saved her from choking on several occasions. Thanks for the clarification, Brent. And much was going on. So, so good. brent metcalfe excommunicated. Please let us know. He also discusses the events leading up to, and including, his excommunication. I had a similar reaction to the section about ADD. John and I recorded an additional four hours (till 1 AM). brent metcalfe excommunicated. I have one teensy-tiny criticism about Johns sensitivity when someone questioned why Brent did not pursue an advanced degree. Textual Criticism and Editing, Mormon studies, and Book of Mormon. I felt like somehow I was responsible for what had happened. Come to the dark side and tell your story. All this transpired in the 1980s, just around the time Mark Hofmann made his name in the community as a renowned book and document dealer. In 1994, Professor David Wright of Brandeis University and editor Brent Metcalf were excommunicated for their scripture studies in New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology In 1995, author Janice Allred was excommunicated for her writings about Mother in Heaven. :). In episode #276 of The Jimmy Rex Show, we sit down with a key role in Netflix Documentary Murder Among The Mormons, Brent Metcalfe.Visit and Listen to more. This was an excellent broadcast! Unintended consequences here we come! There are so many parallels between the happenings in my LDS life and Brents, (although nothing to such depth and notoriety) I was drawn to find more information about his life, while he was in the church and out. Riveting stuff. This negative sentiment is perhaps made up for by Hofmann's victims. As a teenager and still TBM I read some books on the Hoffman Salamander Letter and events surrounding it. Perhaps she remembers me, the useless home teacher. This doesn't mean that Metcalfe has accurately translated that theory into his study of things Mormon. dave davies wife. Brent Metcalf, age 31, Kingsport, TN Lived in: Greeneville TN, Elizabethton TN, Louisville TN Relatives: Terri Treadway, Kathy Edens, Douglas Metcalf View full report Brent E Metcalf, age 39, Semmes, AL Lived in: Wilmer AL, Theodore AL Relatives: Beverly Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf, Thomas Metcalf View full report Allegedly, he expressed too much "support" for Denver Snuffer, although by his own account, he would refuse to follow Snuffer if Snuffer had said that the LDS Church had gone totally astray.The individual, who identifies himself as Brent D. Larsen of the Eagle Mountain Utah Stake, discusses the . Carl, in parts 3 & 4 of the interview, Ill discuss the BoAbr and some of the challenges that believing scholars face in analyzing its ideational and textual origins. Life changing! I think that the group is called FIRM, lead by Rod Meldrum, Jake Hilton, and Wayne May. Youve used it well Brent. Im sure there is a very good possibility that COB personnel would have been more suspect of Jerald, and any information he offered, than Hofmann. Brent Metcalfe. At one point John asks you if you think JS was putting together a scam or if you believe that he believed it himself. But it has not always been that way or worked in his favor. His contributions, reflections, thoughts and insights represent some of the most important contributions in the history of not just Mormon Stories, but Mormonism in general. They buried the Mclellin diaries also.similar thingdidnt like the content. A man with boldness of speech, and is often cited by members as one of the favourite apostles to hear from. Since unit growth of the church is now in decline and growing slower than U.S. and world population growth, how do you see the future of the church and its doctrines? What are your views on the work of Hugh Nibley? [3] Current historians tend to agree that Scotford and Soper joined forces to sell the fake relics for personal profit. Theres the answer. Brent Metcalf Resides in Modesto, CA Includes Address (1) Phone (1) See Results Statistics for all 3 Brent Metcalf results: 50 yrs AVERAGE AGE 100% are in their 50s, while the average age is 50. Ive struggled to understand the human mind in this regard. This one is up there with the best. I think we ought to be okay with these questions, and not automatically defensive. [4] Metcalfe assisted Hofmann in leaking the existence of the letter to the press, contrary to the wishes of the LDS Church. I suppose the precedent was set by Joseph himself in burning down the Nauvoo Expositor because he didnt like the content, and labelled it anti Mormonit wasnt even, William Law was a believer, who could no longer take Josephs hypocrisy. Im curious who is singing Lead Kindly Light in this its beautiful. Thank you. Brent H Metcalf, 71 Resides in Salt Lake City, UT Lived In Sandy UT Related To Kyle Metcalf, Molly Metcalf, Kristy Metcalf, Nicole Metcalf Includes Address (3) Phone (4) Email (3) See Results Brent Charles Metcalf, 55 Resides in Lowell, AR Lived In Modesto CA, Oroville CA, Bonney Lake WA Also known as Gary Brent, Metcalf Brent 2023 Cinemaholic Inc. All rights reserved. This unleashed a veritable deluge of Catholic contributions to modern biblical scholarship. Many of the writers did become illustrious personalities, exactly as you point out. Thanks so much for posting this. Growing up as a full believer, Brent followed the conventional routine and did the missions, after which he spent a lot of time in the historical archives of the Church, researching documents and working with the security department. This was interesting all around. I was there at the very beginning. Really, such a great family. Ive always felt like crises of faith didnt quite describe my journey but Brent gave me the phrase that perfectly describes my experience. Metcalfe is on the editorial board of the John Whitmer Historical Association. Boy, what a chilling conclusion. Signature Books. This is a rumor I heard. Thanks for the interview both of you. Lynn Jacobs was looked at carefully, I believe Brent Metcalf was looked at somewhat. I have question on the Book of Abraham. and our Ive known many of Brents views (his liking Raymond Brown, etc.) Brent had some trouble remembering the details of the events (so did I, and I wasnt there, although I read all of the relevant literature at the time), but I think this is a very good summing up by Jerald Tanner, Confessions of a White Salamander: https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm. He worked directly for Steven Christensen (son of Mr. Mac), one of Mark Hofmann's victims. I found this podcast to be very fascinating. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Brent Metcalf of the USA defeats Franklin Maren of Cuba to win Gold in the Men's 65kg Freestyle Final during the Toronto 2015 Pan Am Games at the. Best wishes, Brent! And how many. [9][4], After being fired from his job in security for the LDS Church for his writings, Metcalfe worked first for Steve Christensen and later for Mark Hofmann. Since you worked for Steven Christensen, could you shed any light on the main reason why Steven purchased documents from Hoffman was it just to donate documents to the church? Honestly, incredible work. Its very sunny in London today and Ive listened too all eleven hours of this interview. We also talk about the concept of translation, Joseph Smiths views on his translations, the traditional apologetic responses concerning the Book of Abraham (Hugh Nibley, John Gee, and Kerry Muhlestein), as well as the LDS Churchs recent essay on the Book of Abraham. I think youre referring to what has collectively come to be known as the Michigan Relics. James E Talmage wrote quite a bit about them, back in the day. Cultural Context Preceding the Book of Mormon, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/493__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_1.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/494__Brent_Metcalfe_Part_2.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-497-BrentMetcalfePt3.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-498-BrentMetcalfePt4.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499-BrentMetcalfePt5.mp3, https://traffic.libsyn.com/secure/mormonstories/MormonStories-499b-BrentMetcalfePt6.mp3, https://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/trackingconfessions1.htm, Signature Books Mormon News, October 1317. The look of Jesus on me removed the burden of my sins, while he spoke these words, Be faithful until death and this shall be thy place of rest. I never had seen Jesus Christ before, nor heard his voice, nor ever had a sense of his intercession at the right hand of God for me till now (Billy Hibbard, _Memoirs of the Life and Travels of B. Hibbard, Minister of the Gospel_ [New York: J. C. Totten, 1825], 23). You didnt elaborate on that interpretation. It is not possible for me to tell how long I remained in that situation, as everything earthly was gone from me for some time. It would yield some satisfaction to me, if my misery can be a cause of happiness to others; but when I came to the place of prayer, had kneeled down, and closed my eyes, with my hands uplifted toward the heavens, I saw Jesus Christ at the right hand of God looking down upon me, and God the Father looking upon him. Part two was chilling as details we have never heard about Mark Hoffman, Steve Christiansen come out. @John, thank you for all the hours you put in. Do you still attend LDS church? You are hesitant to answer no evil speaking on what you cant say right ;). But I feel that sometimes secular scholars, perhaps in an effort to be diplomatic, perhaps for other reasons, underestimate and understate the inevitability of open conflict with a religious tradition they study. funeral directors southend; penalty charge notice costs; johns manville headquarters address; Hello world! Trent Nelson | The Salt Lake Tribune Dorie Olds is the ex-wife of Mormon bomber Mark Hofmann, who killed two people on Oct. 15, 1985. !Cmoninstead, they were duped arranged for major amounts of $ to buy the letter up,bury it and then lie. All it is is a continuation of the pain, Brent further added. As for the photocopy of Wilford Poulsons parallel, yes, I still have it in one of hundreds of boxes in a storage unit while my house is being remodeled. You know, guilt by association. The irony is, I wasnt an activist for anything, I simply wanted to write. [8], Metcalfe is a native of New Zealand. On my mission in England I met a older, wise non LDS woman very knowledgeable on esoteric and metaphysics teachings. Has been quite a while since you had a podcast that wasnt left of center. Jn Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Regardless of what one takes to be the truth of things, the evidence is not in favor of liberal religiosity as a recipe for church growth- those churches and communities which move away from their traditional truth claims tend to atrophy relatively speedily. I just discovered this on my own I bought every single issue of the 7th East Press, and was so disappointed that I missed picking up the final April Fools issue which appeared around campus after the edict banning it from being sold on campus. Biography [ edit] As a prep wrestler, Metcalf went undefeated with a career record of 228-0, won four consecutive Michigan state titles, and earned six junior national titles. It seems like in the aftermath of the bombings, combined with his zeal to argue the history of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe was excommunicated from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. But I have a question for Brent. But this podcast is filled with way more than you will get in the book or documentary. On the latest episode of Mormon Book Reviews Steven Pynakker interviews one of the most important scholars of Mormonism, Brent Metcalfe. You guys at MS are doing great. Don't miss. I always enjoyed our discussions years ago about your love for the Indians in your mission and then your experience doing research with their culture and you feelings towards the Book of Mormon. He was going to have him thrown out of the church. Maxine Hanks was also in my ward. [9] Metcalfe became a suspect himself at one point in time. The problems he discovered lay at Josephs feet, but he threw out the baby with the bath water as if the success of Christianity rode on the success of Joseph Smith. It seems there is some serious self deception that is required to work around these problems that are creating riffs in families, as well as individual conflicts of spiritual dissonance for good members and leaders of the church. It would have helped me a lot to know I was not alone. She was excommunicated for it and it was ironic that her uncle, David O'McKay, was a member of the twelve apostles at the time (and later became Prophet.) But before Brent could truly move on, he had to deal with the emotional turmoil of knowing that he was associated with Mark Hofmann. Indeed, the trivial matters that many theists assert as claiming the attention of God (even as hell is meanwhilebreaking loose) is absurd evidently too absurd for many to even grasp. In Part 4, Brent examines some of the issues surrounding traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Lex, the recommendation by Andrew is a good resource. I like Steve Christensens view on excommunication. According to Metcalfe, he was questioned by LDS Church authorities about his writing for the 7EP and Sunstone was "forced to resign" from his job in April 1983. After all, we are human! Brent, a sophomore at the University of Iowa, completed a very hectic. That piqued my interest in the whole sordid affair. End of my short story. Thanks for the clarification. saw heaven open, and Jesus at the right hand of God, and the Heavenly hosts surrounding the throne, adoring the Father and the Son in the most sublime strains, (Hibbard, _Memoirs_, 181; cf. My examples are numerous and heart breaking. Dont know who the nuts are that Church Security referred to, but Jerald Tanner probably expressed the most legitimate concerns. That was fascinating, thank you. It didnt have anything to do with church history or anything you would read in something like the CES letter, but was instead a realization and acceptance that its not me, its the church followed by a complete collapse of everything. Your excommunication reveals more about your accusers than it says about you. The failure of faith concept was very interesting, and I can only say but for the grace of God. It is those moments of intimacy that really help me connect to the humanity of the interviewee. If you were to interview Mark Hofmann, what would your top questions be? Its probably best to start over when these things happen, rather than just continuing where you left off. My epiphany also came suddenly, while driving, followed by a massive emotional experience. But such intellectual issues didnt play a role in my failure of faith. I was with one of his relatives the day he was charged with the bombings, and she was totally shocked & absolutely certain he had nothing to do with it. Perhaps it has something to do with the frightening and daunting implications of this inconvenient truth. As an atheist I am not without my own inconvenient truths. (I think that was my only disappointment, that Brent basically gave up on God because of an epiphany.). This is one that definately left me wanting more. Other early-19thC religionists were even more literal in their descriptions. I will start my question with a short story to add some perspective. Looking forward to the interview! Wrestling for coach Roy Hall at Davison High School in Michigan, Metcalf finished as arguably the #1 overall recruit with a career record of 228-0 with . And a small footnote: Many of these original founders had been part of an on-campus group, called the Open Door Club. hope my comment wasnt insensitive! I sensed a full range of colors in the photo that is this interview. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: Please post your questions for Brent here. Phooey to that. In this fascinating conversation Brent details that while working for Church security he was working on scholarly endeavors that he hoped would help contribute to apologitic defenses of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. What an amazing life Brent! Do you think he will ever come completely clean? Oh, that would be great! John in wonderfully rare form in this oneI love it! Fixed: Release in which this issue/RFE has been fixed.The release containing this fix may be available for download as an Early Access Release or a General Availability Release. In secret, behind closed doors, who were they really betting on? Do you know if the church took down the names of all the 7th East Press people? Fantastic interviews. The message was discovered after his review had gone to press and had to be edited out. Roger that. So, based on Krakauers shared experience, it sounds like the answer is no, Hofmann doesnt do interviews. However, they still mention other things in their presentations (if you can stand to listen to them; I dont particularly like Jake Hiltons rhetoric, but Wayne May is pretty interesting to listen to)that are pretty fascinating and almost convincing. Joyce Skabelund October 9, 1938 January 10, 2023 Our mother, grandma, and friend, Joyce Roth Skabelund, 84, departed this life on 10 January 2023. Not because it marked the end of the University of Iowa's senior's prestigious and highly . How did you encourage this masterpiece which, in my opinion, decimates the churchs past claims on the BofA? Listening now- so far, I like the new intro lots! accounting for llc member buyout; black barber shops chicago; otto ohlendorf descendants; 97 4runner brake bleeding; Freundschaft aufhoren: zu welchem Zeitpunkt sera Semantik Starke & genau so wie parece fair ist und bleibt 7 czerwca 2022. Yeah for Signature Books, Matt Christensen, and the internet!!!!! The full title is: The life, conversion, preaching, travels, and sufferings of Elias Smith. The second half was fascinating thank you, thank you, thank you for this podcast! This is one of the best MS interviews I have heard so far. When I was on my mission in the early 70s, we were encouraged to show a film called Ancient America Speaks. So, considering all that they had been through, when Mark was named a suspect, Brent didnt even think twice before defending his friend on television. Until Vatican II, many scholars felt hamstrung by the churchs dogma on the Bible and related theological issues. We were not suppose to discuss the Temple, Blacks and Priesthood, and of course definitely not curtain parts of the church history such as polygamy and polyandry. Are you generally satisfied with the way the Mark Hofmann affair has been portrayed in the media and in the various books? If God will ultimately judge us all, why are mere mortals judging mortals, with the illusion of acting for God? Learn how your comment data is processed. "Mark deceived everyone," Co-director Jared Hess told Deseret News. Some people who study and read deeply can be more expert than others with advanced degrees. Gary at the time was an up-and-coming star because of his writing skills. Examples would be projects at the Serpent Mounds in Ohio, linguists studying things like Native Americans singing in a language that seemed close to Hebrew,archaeological digs in latin America that were obviously BOM related, etc. Please, God, let this podcast inspire someone to produce a talk show called, Hot-tubbing with Mark Hoffman! And theres no way that you can change it. What is your spirtuality/worldview like post-Mormonism? January 15, 2015. In other words, if it is an intrinsic aspect of a tradition to make historical claims or assertions about the underlying nature of the world, the falsification of those claims essentially undermines the character of that tradition. Im glad you found some of my remarks useful and thanks for the kind comments. I think that the LDS churchs main competitor in the marketplace of ideas is not a bigger tent more liberal church, its Agnosticism/atheism. Thank you, I didnt know about that info. If Krakauer can interview Dan Lafferty, it might be possible. For the listeners who are curious, a portion of the book describes a first vision, copied below: https://play.google.com/books/reader?printsec=frontcover&output=reader&id=XH0rAAAAYAAJ&pg=GBS.PA54, The Lamb once slain appeared to my understanding, and while viewing him, I felt such love to him as I never felt to anything earthly. Are there still more episodes of this series on the way?? I am so grateful I stumbled across them along with D. Michael Quinns books wow now 20 years ago. Why have you distanced yourself from actively publishing and engaging topics on forums as you did in years past? I was a writer for 7th East Press. But those were interesting times! How was Christensen reimbursed or rewarded by the Church for his document ventures? In Episode 497, Brent Metcalfe shares an interesting fact that when Steve Christensen was called to be a Bishop that he told his Stake President that he would never excommunicate a member of his ward and if that was a problem that he wouldnt accept the calling. When Brent Metcalfe compiled a book of essays last year suggesting that Mormonism's founding scripture wasn't the ancient history it purports to be, he expected some criticism. I believe Brent said he has the copy in his records.**. She was very impressed with the level of esoteric teachings in the D&C and Pearl of Great price. Would a hypothesis like that hold any water? The 7th East Press was a gem. Given that, do you think that Joseph Smith deliberately plotted, prepared, researched, drafted, re-drafted the book over several years, or did it flow spontaneously from his subconscious mind in ways even he didnt understand? But once Mormonism got involved, it turned everything upside down. I do remember after my baptismal interview having a strong feeling of love and admiration for him because someone so respected thought I was special too. In the past, we often got snippets of information in The Church News, Ive always wondered why the most ardently orthodox and pious seem to have the least faith in the divinity and omnipotence of the Lords plan. Brent's review of challenges to traditional approaches to the Book of Mormon. Every metric you can imagine points to the same conclusion: from Paul VI forward, Catholicism has gone into deep crisis. I understand the church spent large sums of money on BYU professors and private research to bolster the Book of Mormon claims through archeological discoveries.unfortunately they have not found what they had hoped for. Well also talk in depth with Brent about how he has been able to construct a healthy and happy life outside of Mormonism. I just got done reading the book Mormon murders. New Approaches to the Book of Mormon: Explorations in Critical Methodology, https://www.deseretnews.com/article/865608559/BYU-professor-speaks-on-unnoticed-assumptions-about-the-Book-of-Abraham.html. Its a band called The Lower Lights. Brent is a fascinating interview for Mormon Stories for many reasons, including: He knew forger and bomber Mark Hofmann personally. Reply. Thanks again Brent for sharing a sketch of your life with us. Not everyone who doubted the authenticity of Hofmanns forgeries did so for valid and sound reasons. Brent provided a detailed account of the Mark Hoffman story with a perspective that we seldom hear. The confessionals in the documentary of Hofmann's associates, such as Shannon Flynn, Brent Metcalf and George Throckmorton are captivating. I just finished listening to part one and I loved it! The Book of Abraham? Whatever the reasons, thanks again for your research that revealed there was MTSTWIS (More-To-See-Than-What-I-Saw). Without good research, ours is a heritage shallow in meaning. All of these documents are available on the Joseph Smith Papers Project website. Thanks again Brent, no wonder you have had the experience you have shared with your faith about God. Were they watching us? From Spencer Kimballs battle with dementia to Monsons where the hell is that driver, to the insights with Mark E Peterson, Brents influential instructors at the University of Utah. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michigan_relics. Historian Brent Metcalfe says he was fired by the church out of fear he'd publish something they didn't like. She was in the middle of her frustrations with the MTC (and some of you know the story). I have been thinking nonstop about that analogy, because it is so illustrative of the disorder. Why didnt the Lord reveal to the the prophet that Hofmann was going to kill? I am very excited to announce that I will soon be interviewing Brent Metcalfe. Hearing Brent break down the Hoffman timeline and story was amazing. He remains an enigma. Is there going to be a part 3? Funny how I was taught at BYU The Glory of God is Intelligence I find comfort in knowing I am not alone. 1. Copyright 2005 - 2023 | Mormon Stories. Truth or legend? Lance is a Gnostic priest and has written and spoken extensively on the Gnostic and esoteric flavor of Joseph Smiths writings. Helping us understand all the ins and outs of this tale throughout the three episodes of this series is Brent Metcalfe, so lets find out more about him, shall we? There is a newish movement who rejects that the book of mormon ever occurred in South America. Career Two-time NCAA and Big Ten Champion three-time all-American first wrestler in Big ten history to earn Outstanding Wrestler at the conference meet two straight years (2008, 2009) career winning percentage of .972 (108-3) ranks second all-time at Iowa 2008 Dan Hodge Trophy winner 2008 Jesse Owens Big Ten . Download . Brent Metcalfe is definitely one of my favorite interviewees ever on Mormon Stories Podcast. Is there going to be a part 3? And Im speaking as a believer- in the very traditional sense- in the Christian interpretation of the world. In the highly anticipated follow up to our first interview, Brent Metcalfe continues his story. Thats not necessarily a problem, of course. [1], In the early 1980s, Metcalfe contributed to the Seventh East Press and Sunstone, while at the same time worked as a security guard at the Church Office Building of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church). [9] When it became rumored that Metcalfe had lost his belief in the historical claims of the LDS Church, Christensen terminated the project and fired Metcalfe. This was an important, affecting interview. She has become the matron saint of Mormon studies (that's a promotion from her previous role as the den mother of Mormon studies). What would you say are the most significant developments in the critiques of the church in the past 20 years that didnt exist beforehand? Hoffman was Laffertys cell mate. Brent Metcalf, who has been through personal tragedy, triumph and uncertainty can now call himself a national champion. Netflixs Murder Among the Mormons is a limited series that profiles the exploits of Mark Hofmann, who planned and executed a deadly event in Salt Lake City, Utah, that left the Latter-day Saints Church shaken to its very core. It was so amazing to hear another person explain nearly my identical experience. I thought you were very well spoken Brent. Anyone know what that is and where I can find out more? The church history claims there was a great uproar about this youth that claimed to have a vision of God. Sincerely, Terry. It was awful so stressful. Hamblin Methodological discussions have become commonplace in Mormon studies. Wouldnt it have been more humorous to wait until *after* the issue was mailed out before bringing the Metcalfe is Butthead acrostic to the attention of FARMS authorities? Looking around me, every object was changed, and a bright glory appeared on everything. An anonymous source reported that Roy Doxey, then the director of church correlation, wanted to know about the papers Metcalfe was studying at the Church Historical Library, which were on Elias Smith and others. [] author and editor of numerous articles and two Signature Books titles, was interviewed by John Dehlin for the Mormon Stories podcast recently. We should also mention that he has since been a key speaker at a conference hosted by Ex-Mormon Foundation and has given several interviews where he has detailed his lifes ups and downs. It shows how establishment Apologists from FAIR and Interpreter and the rest of the former FARMS crew only care about your academic achievements even if you actually do do serious research on the Book of Abraham. It is something that has fascinated me, and this Metcalfe interview did not disappoint!!! Did you ever suspect there was something not quite right with Mark Hoffman? It is true that Mac Christiansen did pay for Marks sons mission. What was most poignant to me was Brents description of his failure of faith. Three or four episodes were mentioned by John. I especially connected with his comments on ADD. After that day I moved to the back of the class and felt like the only straight A student retard at BYU. [9][10] His father was the managing director of the Temple Department for the LDS Church. I also wanted to tell you how disturbed I became to my very core about the way you were treated during your working for the church Then the description of the events of day of the bombings, where the meeting was still set with the GA!