If all the specs remained the same what will going from a 110 to a 112 lsa do to driving characteristics? Is There a Sequence? As a result, a wider valve opening system with no overlapping allows more oil to fall through the oil inlet. I'm surprized at these questions as well as some of the replies. " Enter lobe separation angle. L'auteur prsente une nouvelle contribution de floristique nord-africaine consacre la flore du massif du Rif et des rgions du nord du Maroc, dans le cadre gographique prdfini par le Catalogue des Plantes vasculaires du Nord du Maroc de Valds et al. However, a cam with 108 will only pull 12-16", which is not enough for power assisted accessories. For your convenience, I am providing a comparison table to give you an overall idea about the comparison. A 112 LSA would be better if I had an automatic, but the engine builder (who has built many, many drag racing engines)told me I would have much faster acceleration with the 108, at the expense of a broader power band of course, but that 108 would not unduly penalize me for the street. I would say 114-117* would be a normal 1960's stock cam range and 117* to 120* is more what we see on modern engines. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. 110 for sure. Our content is merely suggestive, not intended to use without proper safety precautions and advice. Anybody do any real testing on LSA in a 3.75 stroke small block chevy?I have always used 104-106 and was thinking about trying a 108 or 110 design.I know there is a lot of variables but just a general opinion from any experts.This is for motor only no nitrous.600-640 HP engine combos.Much appreciated! LSA is a way of summing up the relative timing of the intake-valve events (intake opening, intake closing) to the exhaust-valve events (exhaust opening, exhaust closing) in relation to each other, and it's a great approximation of how the engine will operate. Come join the discussion about restoration, modifications, NOS parts, troubleshooting, VIN codes, and more! More than any other component, the cam profile determines things like idle quality, mileage, and overall driveability. Thats just the way the customer wants to roll, and engine builders find its easy to deliver such a powerplant. The Idles increasing vacuum improves the idle quality and the engines overall performance. I also like the 106 lobe separation with the intake on 103. The idle quality was better with the 112-degree LSA but not as good as the wider 120-degree cam.The ultra-wide 120-degree LSA lost low-speed power and never recovered, but know that this wide LSA is often beneficial on positive displacement, supercharged applications. I'd run it, just be sure to check valve to piston clearance, coil bind and retainer to guide boss/seal clearance. Valve lift will bear weight in any decision regarding LSA. changing just the LSA on my cam wouldnt make a bit of difference on vacuum operated items E ericnova72 More for Less Racer Joined Jan 13, 2007 22,026 Posts The 112-degree cam (red lines) picked up much of the torque, but the big winner was the cam with the tightest lobe separation angle. Cylinder-head flow and LSA are directly related: as a rule of thumb, the better the head flows, the wider the LSA can be. JavaScript is disabled. Also If you go with 112 lobe centers, you create less valve overlap which will increase your compretion. Thanks. by SStrokerAce Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:22 am, Post by Kdub Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:20 am, Post 108 versus 110 will drive the power band down. 106 LSA: On the contrary, if we look at the 106 LSA, we will find it more advantageous and energy efficient than the 110 LSA engine. The lobe separation angle or LSA is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes. by Kdub Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:05 pm, Post I normally run a 106 to a 108 because I like the "hit" a tighter LC cam has when it come up on the came. If the intake valve opens too early, it will push the new charge into the intake manifold. Walter Noah is a process engineer who has a knack for resolving even the toughest technical issue. I've seen that Webcam cams can be ordered with either of the above. As boost increases, the air will be forced through the cylinder, vs. being trapped in the cylinder. The power and torque curve lay directly in between the last two cams, as did the peak horsepower and torque, 488.7 at 6,200 rpm and 487.1 at 4,600 rpm, respectively. Noah knows a lot about whats happening in the car industry with the latest piloting productions thanks to his professional experience. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. A mobile functional near-infrared spectroscopy (fNIRS) was used to record cerebral oxygenation signals in the left prefrontal cortex (LPFC), right prefrontal cortex (RPFC), left parietal lobe (LPL), and right parietal lobe (RPL) and analyze the EC of the cerebral cortex. It creates an unsteady manifold vacuum condition that, on a fuel-injected engine, confuses manifold air pressure (MAP) sensors, making it hard for them to regulate fueling. 03 The 4.000-inch crank and 6.125-inch rods were combined with a set of forged asymmetrical pistons from JE. The 120-degree cam minimized torque production through most of the curve, while the 112-degree cam offered more torque but slightly less peak power. However, in application, there is a lot more to consider. A wider LSA moves intake- and exhaust-valve events farther apart and creates less overlap, which hurts intake-wave tuning. Due to the tightness and frequent overlapping of the intake and exhaust valves, the engine cant generate the high RPM as it is supposed to. 110 LSA: However, if you look at the rate of cranking compression at 110 LSA, you will find a reduced compression rate from the standard cranking compression PSI level. I've heard similar cams (only about 5*'s off) and they have a nice rumble to them. 10 Tuning the timing curve and fuel from the 42-lb/hr FAST injectors was handled by this Holley HP management system. It really comes down to the application. Pontiac 326 Vs Chevy 327 Differences & Similarities. Retarding the camshaft (a higher intake lobe centerline number 108 vs. 104) will generally start the power band later in the RPM range and decrease the cylinder pressure. Epilepsy is a chronic noncommunicable brain (neurological) disorder associated with excessive neuronal activity and unprovoked seizures referred to as 'epileptic seizures' and sensory-motor deficits that cause neurobiological, cognitive, psychological, and social consequences to the patient. So, the 110 LSA engine is a suitable choice for people prone to be the fan of a powerful engine with mighty acceleration power. The LSA, or lobe separation angle, is ground into the cam and cannot be changed. If that were the only consideration, the 101 cam is the clear winner. 2.1.2.4.2 Side-lobe suppression shall be provided in accordance with the provisions of 3.1.2.1.5.2.1 on all Mode S-only all-call interrogations. If you want a lumper idle go with a cam with 108 LSA, the tigher the LSA the idle will be rougher. Now here is where it gets tricky. Say you have a cam ground on a 115 and the other on a 110. I just installed a Comp Cams XE262 in a 9:1 350 with stock iron heads. If you take any of the . The lobe separation angle is the angle in camshaft degrees between the maximum lift points, or centerlines, of the intake and exhaust lobes, says Eric Bolander of Erson Cams. Known as "The Gladiator" around Westech Performance, this Dart SHP blockbased, 370ci, small-block Chevy has made thousands of dyno pulls testing all manner of heads, intakes, cams, and every other crazy thing us magazine folk have coerced Westech's Steve Brul to bolt to it. The 110o will make more power overall. Come here to talk with others who like to drive fast. A tighter LSA is always going to have more overlap, which allows the exhaust and intake systemif they're tuned wellto work together.". I have seen a dyno test where an engine using identical duration and lift made more peak power with a 112 LSA than a 110 LSA. After the next three pulls, it was clear the 113 cam was way down on low-end torque. 110 LSA: On the other hand, 110 LSA is comparatively a wider LSA; it can generate a massive amount of RPM for the engine. 106 LSA: As the 106 LSA is a tighter LSA, it fails to generate maximum power. It also depends on what the vehicle will be used for and if economy and vacuum are important. A cam with 110 lobe center will pull approximately 14-18"of vacuum is borderline for that type of application. any input is appreciated guys, thanks. lobe centers and lobe separation are 2 different things . Some prefer a narrow powerband, and some prefer the broader one. This form of short-term memory is supported by the prefrontal cortex (PFC) and is believed to rely on the ability of selectively tuned pyramidal neuron networks to persist in firing even after a to-be-remembered stimulus is removed from the environment. 106 LSA: The scale of efficient compression rises at 106 LSA. The same is true for intake valve closing. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Also know as Lobe Separation; Lobe Center is simply the distance between the peak opening points on the Intake and Exhaust lobes. But nothing comes without a cost, and idle vacuum suffers as LSA shrinks. 292S-112: 292/292 - 240/240 - .495/.495 - 112* - 3400-7200. 110 LSA: But here, quite surprisingly, you have to face the reduction of the EGR effect due to the 110 LSA. How To Properly Replace Ignition Coils, Chevy 350 Ignition Coil Location And Everything About Them, Heres What Causes Your Car to Bog Down When Accelerating. 106 LSA: There is an increasing chance of engine knock at the 106 lobe separation angle. I had a 110 cam in my beetle and I didn't like it-the bottom end was doggy. But, you may find a lobe wider than a 120-degree angle in any car engine.But, I must let you know that those are customized car engines prepared for any special purpose, such as racing, drag racing, off-road riding, or performing stunts. on average with a N/A motor if you stick the two cams in at the track the tighter lsa will be faster at the expense of idle quality. The only reason I . But that doesnt mean high-strung racing engines cant see gains, as well. by 3V Performance Sat Dec 06, 2008 4:38 pm, Post The lobe separation angle in a natural car engine conveys a considerable impact, especially regarding the maximum torque. Every spec is a road map to what the valves are doing, the most common of which are lift, duration, and lobe-separation angle (LSA)the latter needing the most explanation. Contrariwise, 106 LSA car engines are the best choice for people seeking energy-efficient cars with moderate engine power. Average power was also down, but the engine pulled ahead of the 101 cam at 5,400 rpm, picking up 6.5 hp at peak. . by Marc Mon May 12, 2003 11:38 am, Post But you always have a cam card with the engine. The piston and cylinder damage possibility is pretty low at 110 LSA. And better gas mileage. The extra cubic inches will smooth out a rough idle in a 327. Some of the confusion on this subject comes from what the meaning of "bottom" and "top" is to the speaker, I suppose. We do not stock profiles with 109 or 114 lobe centers. As a result, you can enjoy a pleasing engine outcome. Torsion Beam Vs Multi Link: Who Wins the Battle? The 108-degree cam (blue lines) outperformed the other two, but idle quality suffered. With minimal overlap and a steady manifold vacuum signal, they work great with fuel-injection systems and are the norm on modern pushrod engines, such as the LS and Gen III hemi. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. 110 LSA: On the contrary, 110LSA has a higher piston-to-valve clearance rate. Here are the basics: higher lift values open the valves to increase airflow and longer duration keeps the valves open longer. 110 LSA: On the contrary, if you look at the powerband at 110 LSA, the powerband is comparatively broader. 110 degrees on the lobe separation angles. Aeromotive; 913.647.7300; AeromotiveInc.com, AFR Heads; 661.257.8124; AirFlowResearch.com, Federal Mogul/Felpro; 248.354.7700; FederalMogul.com, Mahle; 248.347.9700; Mahle-Aftermarket.com, Scat Enterprises; 310.370.5501 ScatEnterprises.com, SuperFlow Dynamometers and Flow Benches; 515.254.1654; SuperFlow.com. Wide LSA cams are also applicable in forced-induction applications where less exhaust overlap is required. A commonly held misconception is that intake/exhaust overlap contributes to lower cranking compression. On a naturally aspirated engine, the lobe separation angle has an effect on whether the engine reaches peak torque a little earlier or later in the rpm range. Simply put, both 106 and 110 lobe separation angles have many advantages and disadvantages. This was science at work, and with data in tow, it was time to crunch the numbers and find out what was going on. It a 355. thanks in advance. With a 108 degree lobe center, a cam will have a rougher idle and produce less vacuum due to more overlap. The 108-degree cam offered both the most power and torque, but idle quality suffered compared to the wider LSAs. i've heard of this being done something about the massive amounts of duration allowes gasses to disipate? The takeaway is simple on the surface: A tighter LSA makes more low-end and peak torque at the expense of just a few top-end ponies. Supercharged and nitrous race engines typically benefit from a wider LSA because they dont require as much overlap for exhaust scavenging as does the naturally aspirated engine, continues Bolander. The Crane has a smoother idle, broader power band, and . FWIW. Now that we have a basic understanding of lobe separation angle, we can put together a test to illustrate just what happens when you make changes to it. A cam with a tighter LSA will require a looser torque converter, may not be able to run vacuum-assisted brakes, and doesn't play nice with fuel injection. so the power will come on a litter sooner with the 114, and fall off a little sooner? A forum community dedicated to hot rod owners and enthusiasts. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Bolander says those cams help promote torque in a controlled and predictable manner, especially in no-wake zones and around the docks. Not a HUGE, but a significant difference between 110 and 112, but those are the trends. It's the scavenging effect of the high velocity exhaust gases rushing out that pulls the fresh fuel/air charge into the chamber. *If you do not have enough vacuum, you can in some cases install a vacuum canister or reservoir, which works by storing the peak vacuum in the reservoir. by jim martin Mon May 12, 2003 7:10 pm, Post These numbers can vary a few inches one way or the other, depending on several other aftermarket factors and your individual engine specifications, so you may want to check your vacuum once the cam is installed. 2023 Power Automedia. 05 To ensure our stroker combo had sufficient airflow, we installed a set of Chevrolet Performance CNC-ported LS3 heads from Gandrud Chevrolet. 114LSA +4 puts the intake centerline at 110 degrees before top dead center. Good cam for a lower rpm street engine. AquaTraction Vs SeaDek: Which One Is Better For you? I just bought a 86b Webcam with 112 lobe centers for my 2276. A forum community dedicated to vintage Ford Mustang owners and enthusiasts. But, you may wonder knowing that a higher valve clearance rate reduces the chance of damaging the valve by the piston. Yearh, I have been reading a lot about this issue. The engine has AFR heads, Crane rockers, a TCI balancer, a Scat Rotating assembly with Mahle pistons, an Edelbrock RPM Air-Gap intake, an MSD ignition, and an Aeromotive fuel system. I probably would have gone with 3.55 gears had I knows better.. However, these rules are not absolute. LSA is the distance from the centerline of the intake lobe to the centerline of exhaust lobe. you cannot just take a random change in a lobe separation angle and say 1 is better than the other. 112 will have a smoother idle, a wider power band, and will work better with fuel injection. This overlapping has a direct influence on the oil consumption rate of the engine. Copyright 2022, S&S Motorsports LLC, All Rights Reserved - Powered by, http://www.webcamshafts.com/cam_glossary.html, http://www.newcovenant.com/speedcrafter haft/3.htm, Webcam 86A 108LC w/1.5 vs 86B 112LC w/1.3s. Performance Distributors Keeps The Spark Alive With SOS, A New Diesel Piston That Increases Power And Reduces, Shop Tour: Brian Tooley Racing Expands To Be A One-Stop, Melling Offers New Timing Kits for Ford 4.6L and 5.4L SOHC, Reborn Retro Blower Packs Positive-Displacement Power For Fox, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing Lb-In Torque, Why You Should NOT Emissions Delete Your Diesel, Can A Cold Air Intake Really Help Your Trucks, Ask The Expert: We Want Your Questions For Canton Racing, The Answers: DeatschWerks Responses To Your Fuel System, SEMA 2022: GEARWRENCH Leveled Up With Distinct Quality Hand, EngineLabs Tool Of The Month: Summit Racing AN Wrench, HOLY SHIP! I had an XE 274 in it. Equipped with the 120-degree (LSA) cam, the hybrid stroker produced 570 hp at 6,200 rpm and 535 lb-ft of torque at 5,200 rpm. The 114 cam will give more low end torque, good midrange, less power up high. A wide lobe seperation is not always better than a narrow one, or vise versa. 2.1.3 Transponder reply modes (air-to-ground) 2.1.3.1 Transponders shall respond to Mode A interrogations in accordance with the provisions of 3.1.1.7.12.1 and to Mode C interrogations in accordance . One segment that truly benefits from a wider LSA is the marine marine market. In a blower motor when the valve timing events are where they need to be the lobe sep will usually wind up in the 114-115 range on most Combos. Nitrous engines, which make plenty of power and torque, often run wide lobe separation angles to moderate cylinder pressures and temperatures. The 110 is probably a better choice for a performance street engine. Build your own custom newsletter with the content you love from EngineLabs, directly to your inbox, absolutely FREE! I think that cam had 110 lobe sep. Im loking at a summit cam with close to the same lift and duration #s but 114 lobe sep. Lower cylinder pressure is advantageous for your engine. Next up was the 112-degree cam, which actually lost out in peak power slightly to the 120-degree cam, but offered considerably more torque. Fixing the ignition coils is essential when you experience issues like engine misfire and the Check Engine light that wont go off. Turbochargers are not as simple as they may sound; you may think of them only as power-boosting components. Widening their separation angle helps increase upper rpm power output. " - Voltaire. 110 will be a bit punchier in the midrange and probalby make a little more peak horsepower as long as a good exhaust is used. Well, I saw that Erson makes some nice hydraulic rollers with 108 LSAs, and I know that tighter LSAs have more midrange, so I thought they might be worth a try. Test 1 was easy. Again, these are general bits of conventional wisdom. Builds More High-RPM Power Increase Piston-Intake Valve Clearance Decrease Piston-Exhaust Valve Clearance EFFECTS OF CHANGING LOBE SEPERATION ANGLE (LSA) Tighten (smaller LSA number) Moves Torque to Lower RPM Increases Maximum Torque Narrow Power band Builds Higher Cylinder Pressure Increase Chance of Engine Knock Increase Cranking Compression Either learn to fix it, or learn to write checks. Like one cam is 112 degree and the next is 108 the 108 cam will allow less "leakage"? probably just enough to get me in trouble.. 110 LSA: On the contrary, at 110 LSA, the engine fails to reach the maximum torque, resulting in a decrease in torque rate. Armed with more information on camshaft theory, what will you build? 554"/577" lift. Ed JTO learn to park Joined May 31, 2009 180 Posts indeed, expect low vacuum with anything lower than 110-ish. Overlap is the amount of time that both valves are open in the same cylinder. 68 Mustang, 306, AFR 185\'s, CI cam, FPA\'s, Bigs 650 DP, T5Z, 9" w/4.33's. The stock valvesprings supplied with the CNC LS3 heads were swapped out in favor of a set of dual springs from Brian Tooley Racing. I have 108 for LSA and my headlights take awhile to go up when the car is idling. In general, a stock replacement camshaft with duration of less than 200 degrees will have a lobe separation angle of more than 114 degrees. I just bought a 86b Webcam and Im using 1.5's. Thanks for the replies so far. There are General guidelines about the effects of LSA but it should not be the deciding factor in choosing a cam. I've seen a few comments in threads on here that have said things like "going to the 112LC from the 108LC gives 4lbft more torque at the bottom and 2bhp more at the top" yet this would seem to go against what webcam say on. 110 LSA) and Crane's #341191 (238/248, .563"/.587", 114 LSA), display considerably different characteristics. A cam 112LSA with 4 degrees advance puts the intake centerline at 108 degrees. Before getting to the cam profiles, we had to make sure we had a reasonable test engine. JavaScript is disabled. For example, an oval-track small-block that needs to motivate the car off the turns quickly might have a narrow LSA of around 106 degrees, resulting in more overlap. That way you can discuss what you want from the engine and how changes in LSA or any of the other specs will affect how the engine performs. Generally speaking, decreasing the lobe centerline angle increases overlap. Chevy Transmission Wont Shift Into 3rd: Finding the Main Culprit, Yamaha Lower Unit Drain Plug Size [Explained Everything], Does It Matter Which Ignition Coil Goes Where? For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. camshaft is a Cranecams F238. That is no accident. What Is the SBC Header Bolt Torque? The takeaway from this test is camshaft LSA is a double-edged sword. If you shift at 7500-7800 add 4-6 degrees to both intake and exhaust and spread the lobe separation to 108-110. Introduction. . If two cams are identical with the exception of lobe separation angle (we'll say 108 and 114) the cam with 114LSA will make more low end power than the 108LSA cam? Has anybody experienced it/ tried it? by ANT Tue May 13, 2003 1:08 pm, Post For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Your best bet would be to talk to one of the experts at a cam company to get a custom grind if you're that into the specs. After swimming through the entire article, I hope you are now well aware of the 102 vs 110 lobe separation angle. You cannot look at just the LCA without looking at other specs too. The taller lobe seperation will have a longer powerband but will have to rev higher to make the power than the lower lobe seperation! The lumpy-idling 101 LSA cam churned out an average of 484.0 hp at 6,100 rpm with 493.9 lb-ft of torque at 4,400 rpm. It is dangerous to be right in matters on which the established authorities are wrong. Re: Lobe separations on 383-406 cids.104-106-108-110. You can modify the lobe center a little bit but not enough to change the actual overlap of the grind. ~These are just some of the drawbacks weas guys who like to go mach 10 with our hair on fire and these little motors screaming at rpms that make other guys cryhave to deal with.~. Howards Cams Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller Camshaft and Lifter Kits CL120325-08. by lazaris Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:18 pm, Post Engine knocking generally occurs when the burning of the fuel by the engine is uneven. They also reduce stress on the outdrive. 3.75" stroke= 108 LSA 4.00" stroke= 110 LSA 4.25" stroke= 112 LSA 4.50" stroke= 114 LSA I can see exactly where his theory is coming from. Post pump gas, no additive's as well, runs good, i will put the highest octane in, which is 93.. by randy331 Sat Dec 06, 2008 10:00 pm, Post 106 LSA: 106LSA results in a decrease in piston-to-valve clearance. It has been tried in the VW business earlier, but then they gave it up because of problems with too high temperatures around the exhaust valve, causing them them to break.