winchester model 12 simmons rib winchester model 12 simmons rib

Most websites are poorly Houze relates that for the Model 12 the Watrous report suggested improve the smoothness of the action as it is criticized for being rough. How this was to be accomplished is not related but closer hand-fitting and gauging of parts was likely. I used to club trap targets with it. and/or Simmons, left in the "white", and sent to the other. However, the gun for which Johnson is best remembered is his Model 12 pump-action shotgun, The Perfect Repeater.. Dave Riffle in his book, The Greatest Hammerless Repeating Shotgun Ever Built: The Model 12 1912-1964, states The Winchester Model 12 was, and still remains, the only gun that was offered in over 100 different variations or configurations during its lifetime. It is fair to say that Winchester produced Model 12 shotguns for every conceivable shotgunning special interest group, including duck hunters. The magnitude of this sale is appreciated when you realize how few of the special 10- and 12-gauge magnum double guns were sold. Range was 40 yards from gun muzzle to target frame. Charles Askins was the leading expert on shotguns in the first half of the last century. Winchester installed Simmons ribs and Simmons-designed ventilated ribs for several years. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. Popularly named the Perfect Repeater at its introduction, it largely set the standard for pump action shotguns over its 51-year high-rate production life. Buckingham had a solid 60-yard duck gun and was on his way to becoming a legend. K-Mart Classics: Remingtons Nylon Rimfires Engineered To Last. The survival of both Western and Winchester now depended on Olin management. The buttstock was reshaped on Model 12 shotguns again in the mid-1950s. I was glad to see this as I know for a fact that while many weren't done, they did indeed do some. w/ 22" barrel in original box w/ paperwork 1 of 1,000 #UG5 2 Paul Jaeger Jenkintown, PA. 30-06 cal. The help you need is to get a life. Stock is very fine, with light scratching, pressure dents and an attractive grain pattern. Generally, a Simmons rib gun will bring a higher price than a plain barrel gun, and a lower price than a solid rib or Winchester vent rib gun, all other factors being equal. Must ship to an FFL. Saint Charles, Missouri. Riffle's excellent reference book on the Model 12 notes the 1919 patent date for the two-pin rib, but suggests that the rib was not on the market until 1920. Bore is excellent. The Duck Stamp Law of 1934 was enacted to provide funds for waterfowl propagation. We'rebringing a level of See pi, Winchester Model 12, 28 gauge SKEET pump action shotgun, circa 1955. The vent rib is stamped "SIMMONS GUN SPECIALTIES INC. KANSAS CITY, MO.". Manufactured in 1959. during that time I handled many M-12's of varying configurations. We have a The ducks shot by me in the accompanying photograph were taken with Skeet boring and trap loads of #7 1/2-shot. The straight grip stock, optional from 1935, was discontinued in the late 1950s. That is why I have never used one of my duck guns for duck hunting. Johnson designed the Models 52 and 61 rimfire rifles and the Model 54 centerfire rifle. My wife shot her share of ducks with a 20-gauge autoloader bored Improved Cylinder shooting one ounce of #7 1/2-shot. . And make the 42 any grade you want and a self described winchester know it all couldn't tell the differance and may have bought one. In duck shooting the proportion of magazine guns in use is much higher, probably four men in five using the repeater. Askins added, Fact is, personally, I have always thought that I was surer on the second bird with a repeater than I was with a double gun. On gauges for duck hunting: No fault is to be found with the twelve [gauge] as a duck gun, whether in double barrel with 3 inch cases or in repeaters with 2 3/4 inch. Click here for more information. Ab steadies the boat. Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. 30" Full choke barrel. Franklin and his two sons John M. Olin and Spencer T. Olin were the managers of Olin Industries and Western Cartridge Company in 1931. His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. Every once in a while a Model 12 comes through our club with a high Moneymaker rib like that. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. The Olins bought Winchester for $8.1 million through a combination of $3.3 million cash and the balance in an issue of preferred stock. Stadt's book is a very good book that alot of people don't seem to know about. Auction Date: December 7, 2019 Estimated Price: $ 8,500 - $ 13,000 Price Realized: Details Exceptional and Documented Smoothbore Winchester Model 61 Slide Action "Rifle" with Simmons Vent Rib and Box Manufacturer: Winchester Model: 61 Type: Shotgun Gauge: 22 LR Shot Barrel: 24 inch vent rib Finish: blue Grip: Stock: walnut Item Views: 1599 Lot 6593: Winchester Model 42 Slide Action Shotgun with Simmons Vent RibAuction Date: February 17, 2023. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's It is not as slow or pokey as one might expect. The staff shot skeet with the gun and concluded It is not as fast as the standard Model-12, but nearly so., In further shooting tests the staff found We could not discern any practical difference in recoil effect when shooting standard three inch heavy duck loads. Winchester supplied two boxes of 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8-ounces of #5 chilled shot pushed by four drams equivalent of powder. I recently acquired a 1921 gun. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. I don't believe their ever was a royalty, actually Simmons kept selling his special vent rib model 12's after the 1955 introduction of the Winchester Special Vent Rib @ New Haven. Winchester Model 12 16 ga NIB Never Assembled! Buckingham is jump-shooting with his big double gun. These were called long-range waterfowl guns.. Enthusiastic hunters bought the new repeater. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. A forum community dedicated to Trap shooting enthusiasts. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. Winchester suggests their 3-inch 12-gauge shotshells with 1 3/8-ounces or 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot for wildfowl hunting in their 1951 Ammunition Handbook: These shells were developed especially for extremes in long range shooting with 12-gauge Winchester Model 12 and Model 21 Heavy Duck Guns.. When I went to the university in a different town I worked for another gun shop that was an authorized Winchester Repair Center. There is some difference in what they say but are good reference. Lay-a-way available for t, Excellent overall condition sporting original finishes. be complicated. Rudy was well known with model 12' s and pre-64 model 70's now as far a Felix, he's in a better place now. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. During that time they largely made the right business decisions, hired the right people, and enjoyed a fair share of luck. Manufactured in 1959. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. All Model 12 shotguns have an action slide lock that keeps the action closed and locked in the event of a misfire or hang-fire. Need Help?service@guns.comCall (866)582-4867, PO Box 1131 13800 Nicollet Blvd Burnsville, MN 55337 2023Guns.com. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. Askins wrote in his 1929 book Modern Shotguns and Loads: Perhaps half the game that is killed in America today is shot with repeating shotguns, pump or automatic. This is a correct factory Skeet grade 28 gauge with solid rib on the 26 skeet choked barrel. The Model 12 shotgun, initially the Model 1912, hit the market in August 1912. Copyright 1995-2023 eBay Inc. All Rights Reserved. I am tempted to stop off awhile and call. I have a donut post trap gun but not a pigeon, had two 3 inch guns, one had donut post the other had a round post. SN is 167xx, all numbers do match. This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. I always wondered what the royalty was to Simmons on the Winchester Special Ventilated Rib that they installed. Cred, Ser no 510553, Mfg 1928 , Numbers Match, 30" Donut Post Vent Rib that is stamped Imp Cyl but has been relined and is Mod, 2nd barrel is 30" Donut Post Vent Rib stamped full but is Mod, Stamp, This Winchester Model 12 was manufactured in 1955 and is in good condition for its age. There was no need to shoot ducks at 60 yards. Thought behind it was that a taller rib on the bbl and a higher comb on the stock would help prevent "head lifting". generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to Sales of 100,000 were recorded in the first two years of production. Look for an offset proof mark on the barrel to indicate whether the rib came on the gun or was fitted aftermarket. Get Guns.com offers and news!! Will Winchester ever build the Model 12 again? The Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun Proved Itself a Shooter, Colt No Longer Exclusive Owner of M4 Rifle, Mossberg 940 Pro Turkey & Tactical Review: Shotgun Shangri-La, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Fossari CRX9 Sporting Over/Under, SHOT Show 2023 Picks: Browning Citori High Grade 50th Anniversary, 8 On-Target Concealed Carry Insurance Options (2022), 10 Affordable Double-Barrel Shotgun Options (2022), Best AR-15 Options For Any Budget And Buyers Guide (2022), Best Concealed Carry Handguns For Women (2022). Number 8 and 2 shot provided wider and more even patterns with no center thickening. The 1 5/8-ounce load of the mid-30s bought the 12 magnum a few more yards of range. The deeply blued barrel and receiver frame are very good. The famous Winchester Model 1912 pump shotgun was designed by Winchester's Thomas C. Johnson. But I manage to concentrate, find the combination, and center a pair of easy sprigs. Market hunting was legislated out of existence in the late teens. 1934 skeet grade offerd. The gun looked to be in excellent condition except some nitwit had inlayed a white plastic diamond in the stock at some point. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. Refresh your browser window to try again. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . The Gun and the Times The Model 12 duck gun examined by the staff of the American Rifleman in 1936 was the earliest version. Initially came a series of auto-loading rifles, including the rimfire Model 1903 and centerfire rifles, culminating with the Model 1910, chambered for the 401 WSL cartridge. Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. The solid rib gun shows carrying wear while the ventilated rib gun was refinished when the rib was installed. Tommy, I would be interested in one of the guns you describe. Patterns were fired from a benchrest, using American Target Company B21 silhouette targets measuring 35 by 45 inches. The original "Old milled rib" was developed by Winchester in the 1920's- but like so many of the older quality features, post WW11 competition by Remington and Ithaca made Olin-Winchester more "cost concerned"-- Many Model 12's were equipped with Simmons ribs afterwards, some were sent to New Haven by Simmons, and some Model 12's (and others . rifle w/ Jaeger Quick Detachable scope mount 3 Remington mod. Included with the gun is its orig, Winchester Model 12, 28 Gauge in very good to near fine original condition. 2. Options for the Model 12 duck gun were reduced over the years, particularly following World War II. This was after extensive reworking of the chokes by Ithaca. Looks to me a bit like the raised rib on a Lutjic one barrel trap gun- and the 870- well, Rudy Etchen shot a 12 gauge 870 Trap Grade he got new in 1950-I'd like to have a C-note for every clay bird, box pigeon and game bird he shattered with that old Remmie- I could move in next to Bill Gates- or maybe his gardener!! This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 1d 7h 25m 17240921. Also, it was the only 1 3/8-ounce magnum load available. There are 16 pages of loads for various shell lengths, shot sizes (dust through buck, soft or chilled), five powders, five shell grades and 11 gauges. Buckingham recorded his adventures in some of the best hunting stories ever written. Winchester Model 12 Skeet Gun 12 gauge with 25" Solid Rib Barrel - 12 GA: 0 5d 7h 6m 17240921. The Olins soon added to the attractiveness of the Model 12 duck gun by bringing out a new 1 5/8-ounce load for the 3-inch shell. FORE ARM HAS A PEICE OF WOOD MI, This is an all original 1962 made Winchester Model 12 in the harder to find 16 Gauge. The less pronounced pistol grip-style buttstock of the original Model 12 was discontinued in late 1934 and is not found on duck guns. One of my favorite subjectsI've read and reread the books by Madis, Riffle, and Stadt, and I still find it a little confusing. Manufactured in 1959. Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Duck hunters bought 12-gauge doubles with 3-inch chambers to use the new Super-X magnum load, the Super Twelve as it was soon called. The first thing you notice when you pick up a duck gun is its weight and solid feel. Ithaca brought out their Magnum 10double to use the new shell. Exquisite Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with Modified bore. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The gun weighed 8 1/2 pounds with its 32-inch Full choke barrel. I kept the ones that were dearer to me so now they live in safes and I hate the safes. But they must pass our way to clear! He is engraving the old (Ulrich big duck 12-5 pattern) on it. It was an immediate success. The standard length was 2-5/8 inches. WARNING! These were turned out by the Hunter Arms Company of Fulton, N.Y. in L.C. But it would be my guess that the wood has been refinished and the gun has been reblued. This test, along with a check of adjustment remaining in the takedown joint and functioning of the slide lock dis-connector, are my standard mechanical checks for a Model 12. Chamber marked 3", choke marked full, and 14 1/2" LOP. The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. For more information: www.p65warnings.ca.gov. In the 1950's Winchester's costs were losing pace with what they were ablle to sell their products for. The steel has a nice patina and the stock has most of the lacquer worn off. No Reserve. The latest 2-pin rib gun researched has a serial number of 19114xx with a date of August 26th, 1960. 1937 2pin vent rib offerd, all skeet grade guns offerd with solid or plain barrels. Just to add th the issue, here's a note that I copied from Trapshooters.com some time age. Numbers match on barrel and receiver. Winchester Model 12 12 GA For Sale Winchester 12 GA Model 12. I have several 2-pin guns. The perimeter of the disc was then marked and the enclosed pellet holes counted. The nearest thing to a Model Twelve that could appear, whether domestic or foreign, would be a shotgun with the same model designation, but it would not and could not be a Model Twelve. Browning, in fact, did import foreign-made copies of the Model 12 after Madis wrote the above. restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum. The stock has a hard-rubber plate and a real, full pistol grip carved close to the guard. 98% original, WINCHESTER MODEL 25 PUMP SHOTGUN SOLID FRAME MODEL BARREL LENGTH 28" CHOKE MODIFIED. Teal, mallard, widgeon and sprig [pintail] hover singly and in bunches overhead. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked full, and 13 1/8" LOP. Possible the fore end has been either replaced or re done. Tried to talk him out of doing it and sell him a build up gun but he wanted a vent rib on it as it was his dad's gun. In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. Exc Orig Condition, Winchester Model 12 28-gauge, factory original, WINCHESTER MODEL 12 LIMITED EDITION 20GA. WINCHESTER MODEL 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN 30" SIMMONS VENT RIB 1953 PRE-64 RARE 12 GA. MAGNUM 3" EDITION PROOF MARKING - 12 GAUGE MAGNUM - 5 - 30 " The drop at heel was reduced from 2-1/2 to 2-3/8 inches in December 1938. I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. THIS SHOTGUN WAS A LIMITED RUN OF 4000 MADE BETWEEN 93-95. Madis states Winchester spent a great deal of time and effort to develop better chokes. Furthermore, Winchester constantly experimented, searching for improvements in all chokes, even the old standby full choke. Winchester almost certainly would have perfected their Full-choke Model 12 duck gun to maximize patterns with #4 lead shot, the size most mentioned for long-range duck shooting in publications prior to the advent of non-toxic shot. $899.97. A smothered roar from around the corner! But getting back to the original question, a Simmons rib does detract from the value of a Model 12 and most people will turn away from them. From its debut until the end of the 1950's, the Winchester Model 1912 was the pump shotgun, long known as "the perfect repeater." Optional dimensions for straight or pistol grip stocks, grip caps, front sights and recoil pads were also among early options. The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. Charles Askins may have influenced the decision. S/N 1,589,*** made in 1954. Alarm calls! Did they actually produce any in 1919 or did it take some time to get them out to the public after patent was approved? This test determines if excessive peening of the bolt locking cut in the receiver has occurred. And you are not right about them becouse the model 12 evolved over time with improvements you didn't seem to catch becouse you are probable not a shooter. Mar 24, 2023 Winchester Model 12 Shotgun $150 Mar 24, 2023 Two Winchester Pump Shotguns $150 Mar 24, 2023 L.C. The lead slug added weight but more importantly maintained the balance point at the takedown joint. I offer the following example from What Rarer Day in Buckinghams book De Shootinest Gentman and Other Tales published in 1934. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. There are 3 possible models that you might have: 1) Your Model 12 has a grooved slide handle and with a 'F' stamped after the serial number and has a lightweight alloy trigger guard. Manufactured in 1962. WE DO NOT SHIP INTERNATIONALLY $40 Shipping. Winchester Model 12 Pigeon 28 Gauge Single Family Owned Since 1967, Vent. Some late duck guns came with special order Hydro-Coil stocks, according to Madis. Remington's Nylon 66 semi-automatic .22 LR rifles have grown from 1950s bargain buys to 21st century collectors darlings. 30" Vent Rib Excellent White Front . Shopping at Guns.com gives you the backing No Reserve. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? This shotg, FOR SALE IS A VERY NICE VINTAGE WINCHESTER MODEL 12, 12GA GA SHOTGUN. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. I don't believe it has been fired. The number of pellet holes was divided by the average number of pellets in the load to produce the pattern percentage. Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge (W9229) Price: $3,250.00 Item Number: W9229 Previously sold Winchester Model 12 28 Gauge shotgun. Consider the possibility of a hang-fire, an occasional event in 1912, in a gun without the slide lock feature. Charles Askins, in an article entitled Long Range Shotguns in the January 1930 issue of the American Rifleman, concludes that a 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot, patterning 80% or better is pretty reliable [on ducks] at 65 yards. However, Askins goes on to say I have never, personally, had a shotgun which would reach far enough. Before the eight gauge was banned in 1918, Askins had a Greener eight-gauge double with 36-inch barrels weighing 13 pounds. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA Used Guns. The Simmons rib is done at Winchesters direction as it has the WP proof offset from the rib. Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. The slide handle was enlarged in about 1956 to a slightly extended beaver tail shape with 14 circular grooves. On the other hand, a duck caught in the middle of one of these dense-centered pattern sat 40 yards would receive a dozen or more pellets. Askins stated in Modern Shotguns and Loads: All shotguns which are intended for long range work.should be patterned at 60 yards. Continuing, loads which pattern around 85% [at 40 yards] have that quality which will permit them to continue a pattern on down the range.Askins found that each yard of range beyond 40 yards reduced pattern density by an average of two percent. Featured Gun Classifieds Winchester Shotguns - Model 12, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood - 2 3/4" Shells note: particles/dust can be seen in the photo, In very good condition. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. As you know that, Winchester Model 12 (factory original) 28-gauge pump action shotgun. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). An incredible collector grade limited production 1953 Model 12 HEAVY DUCK GUN SIMMONS VENT RIB that is offered below Blue Book value. Simmons vent rib and custom AA+ walnut furniture. Has a Cutz on the end of the barrel.