45 acp damage human body 45 acp damage human body

There are a number of factors involved, including physical, psychological and physiological, but human bodies are much more durable than is commonly believed. The military is basing their decisions on dollars not dependability not the servicemans life! Take a look at the FBI stats on their testing of various pistol ammunition as well as other reputable studies. American troops in the Philippines discovered this important distinction in the late 19th century. This is why, when training with a firearm, you should train for the center of mass, regardless of target anatomy or angle. Handgun velocities top out at around 1,500 fps at the muzzle. Also, I have pretty much explained what you have just said. Maybe Obamas army should be issued paint ball guns so there is a non-lethal component too. well lets fac the facts ere during th banna war the marines choose the 45 acp end of story. Fortunately, physiological factors are often not the deciding factor. All righty then, I started with 38 caliber revolvers in the early 70s, 53 yrs later, since few people carry revolvers, capacity, I have bounced back and forth and keep ammo for both 9mm and 45. cause if they did there would not be so many innocent victims being injured and killed all because they couldnt hit the side of a barn with a soft ball from 5 ft. I never miss. If another prefers a 9mm let him use it. Gramins was using a 13+1 capacity Glock 21 in .45 ACP. And both my wife and my son HATE the Kahr (makes their hand hurt). Officer needs help!! The FBI has made a pragmatic decision that the 147 grain 9mm bullet is the best bullet for its agents because it allows for more rounds in the handgun. Adamantinomatous craniopharyngioma cyst fluid can trigger The comparisons that I have seen conducted under those conditions seem to be pretty equal. The human body experiences four main types of acid-based disorders: metabolic acidosis, metabolic alkalosis, respiratory acidosis, and respiratory alkalosis. Q-Did the owners of their weapons replace recoil springs on a maintenance schedule? The results may surprise many as it did myself. Still, I think when we're talking about pistol caliber handguns, it's pretty hard to measure any substantial accuracy differences when we're rarely shooting at distances greater than 15-25 yards if that. You can read all the FBI reports and all the ballistic gel crap you want. The concern that a round will pass through an assailant and harm an innocent bystander is largely exaggerated. Black Talon ammunition was My opinion is he got shot in the living room and after he kicked the door in. Adamantinomatous craniopharyngioma cyst fluid can trigger Though the patient survived and only had a small wound, he suffered extensive contusions throughout his lungs. Thats my two cents for what its worth. Well, depends on whom you ask. The better the bullet and the shot placement of an officer, the more likely the officer will go home after a shooting. More rounds the better. I also have one that many people will call garbage. So Marines are now trained to simply kill them. end of discussion. The best stopping power is a complex mix of many different factors, including how fast the round is traveling and what it does when it enters the attackers body. I personally dont find much difference in recoil between a compact 9mm and compact .40 S&W; but I recognize and am sympathetic to other shooters who do. Never had a jam up firing many different kinds of ammo. One last thing, I love the MC but for a military branch that has prided itself on marksmanship, they went along all too easily to 5.56/.223 and away from a real rifle (M-14). I just had to get my 2 cents in. What causes more damage, .45cal pistol or 5.56 mm rifle? to stop the threat. You're free to republish or share any of our articles (either in part or in full), which are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. The story makes that even sound too few. I have small hands for a guy but I have no problems with accuracy. He is an NRA Pistol Instructor, a Colorado P.O.S.T. You're Dead: 5 Deadliest Bullets In The World They're just as important as the gun that fires them. WebThe 45 will but them down and bleed them out real quick with a gut shot, the 9mm will have them flopping around and may not stop them from firing back, also from the pools of blood near the bodies the 45 does more damage. The two most important factors to consider, in order of importance, are penetration and permanent cavitation. Hollow points also create a larger temporary cavity. If you like and are comfortable with what you shot, then you will carry what you like. The pistol is not their primary weapon. A bigger hole is better than a smaller hole and more holes is better than one hole. I read this after selling my XD Tactical in .40 to a friend and then settled on .45 GAP. And if Im responsible enough to use a firearm to fight for my government, Im responsible enough to own a firearm to protect myself and loved ones. A .50 Desert Eagle is no good if you cannot carry it and get it out and shoot it accurately and fairly quickly, no matter what the knock-down power if you were able to hit anything with it. For two decades, MARSOC operators have been allowed to carry custom-built Colt 1911s chambered in .45ACP. I read a study from an Army medic regarding one shot kills from a handgun. The fifteen round magazine contributes to the spray and pray thinking while the 1911 makes one concentrate on placing the shot. There will always by that guy who can take several shots before dropping, and there will always be that perfect head shot. The round severed Platts brachial artery, passing through the arm into his chest and almost entirely through his right lung. Now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new Gen5 Glock 17M. The 1986 FBI Miami shootout between eight FBI agents and two serial bank robbers was the deadliest and most violent shootout in FBI history. I carry a Glock 19 with 15+1 and am quite crafty with it. It scares the hell out of me to think I might have had to use a 9 mm. Immediately retired the Glock 17 and requalified with a Glock 21 Gen 4 after a long break. She said she shot him. Also quoting from the Marine Corps Times: The arguments boil down to this: The .45-caliber round is the bigger bullet, so it has the knock down power to neutralize any adversary with one shot; while pistols that fire 9mm rounds are generally more accurate and can carry more bullets. Now call me a troll as I suspect you may be in love with your clunky Glock and .9mm round. In fact you are 1000 rounds short. 5.56 NATO in .223 Rem could result in failures. 1SGT. But you have to shoot the gun your most accurate with and most comfortable with but if you dont seat the grip of any pistol in the web of the hand deeply all guns no matter what the caliber the gun will whip in the hand. When it comes to personal defense, my preferred calibers are .357 Magnum and .45 ACP, with a grudging nod to the .38 Special and 9mm Luger for concealed carry when I simply cannot conceal a larger handgun. 380 ACP Fire Rate: 240 I carried an issue 45. I have a Ruger American 9 mm full size and its twin in a 45 caliber, I will say yes the 45 caliber is a larger round with more in a way push behind it, but I totally agree with the proper placement of that round when firing is the deciding factor. Rifle rounds have an elongated, oblong shape and so they often tumble. I just got a glock30SF and im thinking of adding her to the g27 for my CC permit. Its round is designed to not only kill the attacker but also to stop him in his tracks. WOUND BALLISTICS - Motion and Effects of Projectiles in the Open carry is fine where Im at. I meanwtf? The Ruger SR1911 is comfortable for some reason and I have considered getting one from time to time. Shooting another person is only done with the intention to, at the very least, incapacitate the subject to protect the physical safety of others. Physics says my 225 grain .45 ACP ,+P+ traveling at 1210 fps is more capable than ANY 9mm currently available. WebThey could balance it by decreasing the damage of other pistol cartridges, like for example, Intermediate cartridges like 7.62x39/5.56x45 could one tap the upper torso and 2 tap lower torso, the .45 ACP could 2 tap torso, dealing just shy the amount of damage required to kill upper torso, include a large penalty with that. I carry 9mm JHP for EDC and also use JHP in the .40 High Point. Really.. and air on the nose of the bullet?! Why arent both so much better than .223? I know a LEO that works in Mendocino County CA. The Department of Defense has recently been taking a hard look at the sidearms and sidearm calibers issued to today's military personnel on the front lines. .45 ACP (230gr) One of the main reasons why military personnel and many LEOs made the switch to 9mm handguns was because of the deeper bullet penetration. The deers shot with 9 ran and ran far compared to the short distance the 45 shot deer covered (100yds or less). One writer mentioned the old adage about wounding one and it takes two more to remove him from the field of battle. Center Mass/head shots are guaranteed kills. We have came a long ways with jackets, cores and construction of bullets in the last 50 + years. In this dangerous time period, an officers adversary can continue his deadly actions against an officer. Officer Needs Help!!! The original design and purpose of the 1911 45, was perfect for its knock down power. Lets say it is winter and a large person is wearing very heavy clothing. So that is where the saying and belief came from. Handgun Wounding Factors: A Caliber Effectiveness Guide for Once you run out of rounds, youre done. And Im not always concerned with concealing. Human Body I carried a Colt 1911 while serving in Korea. What, is that like an every day occurrence? According to a sweeping 2016 survey, there were, at that time, more guns in the hands of Americans than there are cars on the road. You fire lots and lots of them through das maschinepistole and drown em in hot metal until they fall down and stop trying to kill you. We need to dial back our expectations of what a pistol cartridge can and cant do as an instrument of CQB. Shooting light steel target that doesnt allow penetration at all vs a human body is a little bit different. Military ball ammo leaves some things to be desired. Seems to me that American businesses take it in the chin enough already without this insult. Im sure, given the choice, MARSOC troops would take a 15 round FNX45 over a Glock 15. However, in early 2015 the door was cracked open, allowing them to choose Glock 19's (chambered in 9mm) instead of their larger counterpart. Heart shot, rolled it on the spot. Been hunting 49 years. Damage: 23. Hydrostatic shock Im very confident a 45 caliber would have been one and done. Core, you touch on something that I have often thought about. The difference Is not all soldiers are comfortable shooting the heavy recoiling 45 round. Theres also the reaction of a surprise. Greater tissue displacement is likely to lead to more blood loss. Give me a 45 any day! Never shoot a large caliber man with a small caliber weapon. 158 gr 0.357" Magnum semi-jacketed bullet will penetrate outside skin of car door and sometimes just penetrate the inside skin. People have walked off from head shot wounds from the venerable .45, .38 mag, etc. I was in the military and was law enforcement. I still carry a Ruger P-97 in 45 ACP caliber. Which is better? They argue that the 9mm round has more penetrating power because the round faces less air resistance on its nose as it flies through the air. What kind of insane non-scientific reasoning is this? Now that you know where I am coming from. You probably wont feel as much pain in your hands or joints when the rounds go off as when youre practicing on the range. A 9 is a great backup. In 1985, the US military replaced the .45 ACP with the 9mm round for its standard sidearm. I imagine humans are the same. However, for the civilian this is generally an impractical plan for a variety of reasons. Now marine I hope your watching now instead of using glock 19 in a 9mm counterpart here is a better suggestion why dont you use a glock 21 4th gene to insure ur fellow colleges a better a faster on the spot accuracy with zero recoil it will enable them to be more successful in hitting targets. The 9mm is a typical government one-size-fits-all solution. Unfortunately, there is no valid, scientific method of analyzing actual shooting incidents. Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement. You prefer the .45 for stopping power? Reality. I sort of like the Canik TP9v2, with Browning BXP xpoint 147 gr load. So if my pill hit my target in a less than optimal body section with ball ammo, Ill opt for the bigger ball every time. 2. Factors like these led to the military adopting the Colt .45 ACP pistol as its standard sidearm in 1911. Riley has trained extensively under instructors such as: Rob Leatham, Mike Seeklander, Tim Herron, Scott Jedlinski, Matt Little, Kyle Lamb, Dave Spaulding, Jeff Gonzales, Bill Blowers, Chuck Pressburg, and others, amassing many hundreds of hours of formal shooting and tactics training. I'll tell you what DOES impact penetrationit is the frontal area of the bullet and its relative friction and resistance as it impacts a body and attempts to travel through. WHICH HANDGUN ROUND HAS THE BEST STOPPING POWER? Because bullet strikes to the torso will not immediately incapacitate an adversary and will not knock him to the ground, police officers need to use bullets that will neutralize an adversary as quickly as possible. Its probably just psychological, but real evidence that the .45 is more effective. Its all about follow up shots. The paramedics said he probably would not live. Physiologically, a highly motivated target can only be destroyed by hitting the brain or the upper spinal column. Keep in mind, competing for government contracts is expensive, time-consuming, and maintaining an awarded contract can be a royal pain in the you-know-what! I own 9mm, .40 and .45. What I have also seen on the range at 25 yards, while shooting steel silhouette time after time, was the 9mm would fail to kick the silhouette out of the track 7 out of 10 times without placing another shot. It enters the human body at energies approaching the speed of light and And I suspect it could very well be the Sig P320 as it is the epitome of modular.. Moreover, law enforcement shootings typically result in only one or two solid torso hits on adversaries. Do you really think that all of SOCOM is using rifles and SMGs, and the Marines are using pistols? If you are in the sixties o more 9 mm is the best choice. Ricochet off. 45 standard velocity is 850 to 900 fps, NOT 500 fps. One person might be able to control themselves and squeeze off a headshot. The answer is Yes. The saga will never end. They are a secondary source at best. The only gun I could get to in time was a Glock 17 loaded with 115 grn jhp ammo. Your body will make the shot while your mind hesitates every time! Theres no reason to mince words a handgun for self defense exists to create damage to the human body. Dr. Peter Rhee is a trauma surgeon who operated on victims of the 2011 shooting at a political event in Tucson, Arizona, in which six people were killed and 13 wounded in a hail of 9mm bullets. Is it comfortable for you to carry and shoot and are you accurate and reasonably quick in getting it from concealment to shooting? This is why you must choose your weapon carefully and train with it diligently. Q-do you think your mind will change about +P in a 45 cal? Thank you. This myth continues not because of fact, rather because of unsubstantiated statements like this. 45 acp damage human body I do believe that whether its a 9 mm or 45 caliber youve got to be accurate with the placement of that round otherwise youre just wasting shots. Never held a weapon till boot camp. Either will get the job done for protection. I never had much faith in a 9mm til that incident. This recent policy change and operational change means the U.S. Marine Corps' special arm of SOCOM (U.S. Special Operations Command) has also come to terms with the debate of 9mm vs. .45ACP. You must have JavaScript enabled in your browser to utilize the functionality of this website. One week later the detective in charge advised me that papa lived, walked out of the hospital and back to Mexico. If youve ever spent anytime shooting steel then you would know which one will take someone off their feet quicker. Your skull is very thick in places (base of the skull) and some bullets arent designed for that kind of penetration. For those that think their their 45 is best, Ill shoot my 9mm and for those that think their 9mm is best, Ill shoot my 45. If you use .22 mag, muzzle flash is pronounced and may have some fear factor with its use. Guns dont kill people. He eventually was taken off life support 4 days later, open casket funeral. As a civilian with a concealed carry permit, my rule is that I will carry the heaviest, store bought self defense round that I can buy. Other human tissue in the body reacts differently. Indeed, you and bystanders in the immediate area are much more endangered by rounds that do not penetrate sufficiently than by rounds that overpenetrate.. I am not sure why Ruger did not enter a weapon into the competition (like the new American pistol), but it could be that they looked at the RFP and made a determination that for some reason their pistols didnt fit the bill, or perhaps they decided it wasnt worth it. The saying The Quick And The Dead was true. WebWhen youre in the midst of dealing with an attack, the reduction in blood flow to your hands (along with the chemical changes in your body) will likely result in an increase in your pain threshold. I do like the capacity of the 9mm for in town carry and lighter weight than my Govt model 45s. And no I have not tried it with Glock 19 I really dont like Glock it feels weird in my hand and does not perform anywhere close to my Kimber Colt 45 or my Walther Q4. Patrick points out that there is sufficient oxygen in the brain to support voluntary, life-threatening actions against an officer for 10 to 15 seconds after the heart has been destroyed. I only want to pull the trigger 1-3 times. Patrick explains in his treatise that, A bullet simply cannot knock a man down. Rookie year. I have got to wonder about this Neil Clapperton quoted above. It worries me that you feel safe carrying a .45 acp around bears and moose. Unless they needed concealablity. So, the answer is simple, right? WebChronic kidney disease is a disease characterized by progressive damage and loss of function in the kidneys. are 9mm rounds substantially more accurate than their larger caliber brethren? Whats more, a temporary cavity measures volume that has been stretched, not volume that has been destroyed. I spent FAR more money letting her out every pistol they had for rent than I did purchasing her final choice. Shorter barrels or longer range of initial impact will likewise decrease the possibility of expansion. If you know firearms and know how to properly use them than the caliber shouldnt matter. Following the incident, significant changes were made to the firepower carried by agents, the body armor they wore and the incident response training they received. This article will define what the question which handgun round has the best stopping power? means, and offer unbiased information that will help the readers to make up their own minds on the subject. I have never personally tested 9mm long range, but I have seen 45 Auto results. JavaScript is disabled. knows the sound of a 9m they may say o well Ill chance it but a 40 cal. I like it and am very comfortable pulling the trigger in as high stress of a situation as training allows. 0.22" Lead air gun pellet requires a minimum of 250 ft/s velocity to penetrate fresh human skin. Wouldnt waste my money on it. In July, reports indicated that the top candidates in the final running for the new $17 million-dollar Modular Handgun System (MHS) contract to replace the current Beretta M9 included Glock's G17, the Sig Sauer P320, Smith & Wesson's M&P, and the new Beretta APX among others. He was 15.. Ships To Store. Platt was killed at the end of the gunfight, but not before unleashing deadly mayhem. I still did like the 39-2 for CC. 7.62 leads the damage potential, followed by 5.56, followed by 45 and finally 9 mm. At that long distance, the .223 will slam into its target with almost twice the speed of the .22. NATO settled for the 9mm as a general service handgun cartridge after the war in part based on the testimony of a whole bunch of old SS guys whod served on the Russian Front. Whats more, for those who are considering purchasing a firearm for home defense, but have not yet done so, it is important to know what kind of firearm is appropriate for your needs. I carry a 10auto. But in the Kaos of combat (especially at dark:30) your intended target isnt usually going to present itself and just stand there for your perfect shot placement. The FBI agents had loaded jacketed hollow point bullets into their firearms. Watch the .22 and the .223 tested on blocks of ballistics gelatin, a material that mimics human tissue. There are far too many different considerations and circumstances between self-defense necessities and military/LE necessities to list in a comment section; but theyre important distinctions. In 30 years I saw a shit-ton of things. There are many fine little Girls Guns in 380 cal. There ya go compromise just carry both. This represents a cultural shift in America. I see your point. It definitely doesnt mean the ability to kill the target. Its only a pistol. Just happened to recall the powerful 10 auto cartridge. 45 acp damage human body When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The last time such a broad survey of gun ownership in America was done, long arms ruled the day and Americans were largely interested in weapons for hunting and other sporting uses. 12 shots fired. While typical SKS rifles do not qualify as assault weapons because they have a fixed magazine and stock and lack a pistol grip, Hodgkinsons gun would have met the criteria. The .223 is carrying 335 foot-pounds of force, while the .22 carries 70 foot-pounds. Elton Makin was a US marine in World War One. In September 1918 American troops had overrun the German front line, and he was sent back carrying a And I can certainly understand WHY you would be led to thinking that switching to the Glock 21 would improve your chances of getting a stop. But it is no longer valid against todays terrorists, and the mindset they fight with. A .223 is just 55 grains. There is also the very real factor of life-or-death, fight-or-flight stress. There were 5 gunshots to his chest. F=MA is F=MA. Circulatory collapse will result in significant deprivation of oxygen to the brain. So for over a couple hundred years size mattered in stopping power, or say incapacitating an opponent. But I think the bigger point to be made is that it would not be wise to make a decision on a pistol or caliber simply because it is bigger, and therefore more manly. It should be made based on the merits and actual performance of the different calibers and/or pistols. Multiple hits are extraordinarily unlikely. Open the tools menu in your browser. More damage with one shot. Remember we started this country with every make and model of firearm known to man.Give our men our warriors the best.Let them choose the caliber they know better than anyone. We were trained with a .45, to protect the patient. Shot placement vs. I leave distinguishing the difference for law enforcement and military.In the moment of truth youre either going to hit properly or not. Finally, someone mentions what type of ammo is being used. 3, both hemolymph ACP and AKP activities of P. clarkii were significantly decreased in the 30 and 50 mg/L groups compared to the control (P < 0.01).Similarly, PO activity also exhibited a significant reduction in the 30 mg/L group (P < 0.05) and the 50 mg/L group (P < 0.01), respectively.However, LZM activity showed a significant increase That said a handgun is only used to get to a bigger firearm..it was never ment to be used in longer than 30 meter engagements. A .20 gauge double barrel should be good for home defense day for a woman or a guy. I am a Force Recon Marine with 10 years of advanced military training and have served 7 separate combat tours. And It will get the job done quite handily. He also competes in USPSA and 3-gun competitions including numerous top-10 finishes at major matches and championships. 9mm vs 45 ACP, WE END THE DEBATE. The Human Torso Test. Ruger already dominates the American handgun market, and they are very profitable, so it may not have been worth it to them. For another 2+ years. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2rwYqGmVvzQ, http://www.glocktalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1165386, http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=91, http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=34714, http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2008Intl/Roberts.pdf. 2 from 15 ft, 2 from 25 ft, jumping to 2 from 50 ft. And 2 from 100ft. the legendary .50-cal. actually kills Regards Jim, Sorry for the typos are you speak to text because I cant text like my child. who proved the .45-caliber round has SO MUCH more knockdown power than the 9mm that it only requires one shot to incapacitate a threat? Wow now this argument of 9 mm verses 45 acp is stupid. For you to dissect their writings may be fun but not productive. The one thing Ive learned and seen over a lot of shooting is that a 9mm with FMJ bullets is mostly useless. Just saying. You hit it dead on its not the cal thats most important its what you can do with it. The .45 knocked him on his ***. When the .223 exits the barrel of a gun, it flies at more than 3,200 feet per second, and is still going 1,660 feet per second after traveling 500 yards. Marine Force Recon Vietnam Vet. Gimme a break! May everyone who reads this have a Blessed Day! Oh yeahMale mental dropped like a 50 pound bag of sand. 158 gr 0.38" Special plain lead bullet will only penetrate one side of a human skull. I have yet to see any really legit fair and unbiased comparison of the 9mm and 45acp calibers. I carry a 9 as one of my CCW, a Sig P938. Also SOCOM has been using hollowpoint ammunition for years, but primarily against unsanctioned terrorist personnel. Handgun caliber and size is to each is own. What I have found, is its a matter of preference. But its easy tell which one of you are the idiots, and those of us that actually know are trying to skate uphill teaching those that dont. I prefer the .45 ACP. The kidneys separate this material from the blood. the article mentions that where a bullet hits the human body is also a major factor on whether it inflicts a mortal wound. Okay, I have to give them props on this part of the statement because this is 100% correct. Also the .45 will ring your ears like hell and most self defense scenarios are you are not wearing ear protection. The germans used 9mm forever and they know their guns and war making. Japanese quail chicks in a studythe results human body Larry Muhr, A little anecdote. Just one article about that here: http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2015/07/08/u-s-military-makes-monumental-shift-hollowpoint-pistol-ammunition/. I don't know about you, but my .45's seem to be plenty accurate, certainly as precise as any of my 9mm pistols. After 22 years as a combat soldier, I am kind of partial to the .45 ACP, but I shoot modern, guide rod equipped with aftermarket sights, not rack guns. He is the current USPSA Carry Optics Colorado State Champion and most recently won 3rd place in Master Class at the 2022 USPSA Carry Optics National Championship.